This transcript from the Yaron Brook Show explores the philosophical tension between Christian values and the development of Western civilization. Brook, speaking from an Objectivist perspective, argues that the core tenets of Christianity are not the foundation of modern civilization but are, in fact, “anti-civilizational” forces that periodically hold it back.
1. The Myth of “Judeo-Christian” Values
Brook begins by rejecting the term “Judeo-Christian,” calling it a mid-20th-century concept designed to distance Christianity from the Holocaust. He focuses his critique specifically on Christianity because:
- Cultural Dominance: Christianity is the primary religious influence on Western culture; Judaism, in his view, is a “cultural asterisk” in the West.
- The Transmission of Ideas: He notes that Islamic scholars, rather than Jewish ones, were the primary transmitters of Greek knowledge (specifically Aristotle) back into Europe, which eventually sparked the Renaissance.
2. Defining Civilization
Brook defines civilization not merely as a stable society, but as a culture of achievement. Key characteristics include:
- Human flourishing and material well-being.
- Advancements in science, technology, and architecture.
- The creation of political forms that facilitate individual liberty.
- A movement away from violence and toward the rule of law.
3. The Three Incompatible Values
Brook identifies three core Christian values—Faith, Humility, and Self-Sacrifice—and argues that each is fundamentally opposed to the requirements of a civilized society.
Comparison of Value Systems
| Christian Value | Civilizational Driver | Brook’s Argument |
|---|---|---|
| Faith | Reason/Science | Faith relies on revelation; civilization requires observation, experimentation, and Aristotelian logic. |
| Humility | Pride/Achievement | Humility teaches human limitation; civilization is built by “arrogant” geniuses (Newton, Galileo) who trust their own minds. |
| Self-Sacrifice | Value Creation | Sacrifice demands giving up higher values for lower ones; civilization requires the passionate pursuit of personal success and thriving. |
The Critique of “The Last Shall Be First”
Brook specifically targets the idea of humility and the elevation of the “meek.” He asserts that:
- Civilization is never built by “the last” or the poor and stagnant; it is built by the first—men of immense intelligence, self-esteem, and capability.
- The Founding Fathers were not humble; they were men of “supreme confidence” who acted against the dictates of religious humility to establish a new nation.
4. The “In Spite Of” Argument
A central theme of the transcript is that the great achievements of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment happened in spite of Christianity, not because of it.
- The Renaissance: Artists like Michelangelo and Da Vinci had to bypass Church bans on dissection to study anatomy. They embraced “pagan” (Greek) values of beauty and harmony.
- The Enlightenment: This era was a “de-Christianization” of the West, where reason and individual rights replaced faith and the divine right of kings.
- Secularization of Values: Brook argues that when Christians act rationally or build great things, they are “polluting” their religious values with secular ones, effectively acting as “marginal” Christians.
5. Conclusion: The Path Forward
Brook concludes that for civilization to reach its full potential, Christian values must be replaced by a morality anchored in reality and discovered through reason. This involves:
- Abandoning Faith for Reason.
- Abandoning Self-Sacrifice for Individual Thriving.
- Abandoning Humility for Pride and the pursuit of perfection.
“Christianity and civilization… don’t mix. One is polluting the other. Christianity is polluting the element that is civilized.”
Content
Transcript
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The radical fundamental principles of freedom, rational self-interest,
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and individual rights. This is the Euron Brook Show.
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All right, everybody. Welcome to Unook Show on this uh Saturday,
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December 20th. Um, thanks for joining me. We are, you know, I told you that
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I’ll devote my Saturday shows to to three general topics. Uh, kind of Christianity and civilization, uh, uh,
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the search for meaning and, uh, and capitalism, uh, just just different
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aspects of capitalism. So today we’re back to the topic of uh of uh civilization and uh and Christianity
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and uh um yeah, we’ll we’ll keep on this rotation. I I I do not have any reviews
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today, but uh I I do need to catch up on those. So, we’ll probably devote a midweek show sometime uh to to at least
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catch up on reviews and get them all done um and get them all or most of them
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done uh by year end. All right, let’s see. Um
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so uh I thought we’d talk today about Christian values and what they are and
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then uh how they relate to Western civilization to to civilization to to
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where we are today to how we got to where we are today. how civilization came about and to what extent we can
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attribute civilization to these uh you know co-ch Christian values to
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what extent is Christianity responsible but we’ll look at it through the lens of of of Christian values of through the
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lens of Christian morality I want to say one thing I was thinking
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of calling this a Judeo-Christian values versus
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civilization U but then I I thought God then I’d have to separate out what is
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exactly I’d have to do the the whole theology of the separation between Christianity and Judaism and and that
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seems ridiculous. Also it just opens it up to the argument of no there is no Jew
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to Christian it’s really only Christian values and Jewish values are very different and to some extent that’s
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true. U so I decide hell with it. I mean the reality is uh Judo-Christian values.
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The whole idea of Judeo-Christian civilization, Judeo-Christian whatever is a a a probably a mid 20th century
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concept. It is a post Holocaust concept. Uh it’s a way for Christians to pretend
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that Christianity had nothing to do with the Holocaust. For for Christians to pretend that oh no, you know, we’ve
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always been on the Jewish side. uh in you know when faced with the reality of what happened in Europe uh during World
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War II uh so uh so there is no such thing as Judeo-Christian values the Jews
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and the Christians indeed disagree on many of these values they they they
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share common as we’ll see irr we won’t see but they’ll share common irrationality that the irrationality of
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religion the irrationality of faith that they share but they disagree on the particulars and there’s no point in
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really getting into to it. U just to be clear, just so nobody has any doubts
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because I know a lot of people are out to get me on this issue. Um
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it’s Judeo. Who cares? Judo is a martial art. I’m talking about Judo. You thought
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I was talking about Jews. No, I’m talking about Judo Christian. It’s the It’s the There’s a Judeo-Christian
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thing. Um Judeo Judeo-Christian.
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Um Just so we’re clear, uh I don’t think Jewish values had
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anything to do with civilization either. So everything I say criticizing Christianity with some variations
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because the values are different, but basically applies to Judaism. But why don’t I and and this is a question I get
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all the time, right? Why don’t I attack the Jewish religion and and Judeo values
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as much as I attack Christian values? primarily because they’re just mostly in America, in Western civilization,
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arguably even in Israel, they’re not that relevant. We live in a world in which the relevant
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um the relevant values uh the reent the relevant perception of
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morality, the relevant religion is Christianity.
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Judaism is an asterisk. It’s it’s it’s it’s barely significant. They’re what I don’t know 15 million Jews in the world.
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It it it doesn’t count for anything. And most of those many of those Jews, if not most of those Jews are completely
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secular. And if they have any values, if they’ve absorbed any values, they’ve absorbed it from the from the Christian
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culture around them. And indeed, arguably, Judaism has been Christianized quite a bit in the last few hundred
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years. So, it’s just a waste of time to criticize Judaism. Now if I lived in
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Israel where Judaism is to a large extent a threat core religion is a
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threat to I think the existence of the state of Israel uh to the success of the
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state of Israel to the western the the the the civilized aspect of Israeli
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society. Then I spent a lot of time in Israel criticizing Jewish values.
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But I live in America and my audience is overwhelmingly well not overwhelmingly
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not Israeli. Uh it’s overwhelmingly American and eur and Canadian, Australian and European. It’s
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Anglo-Saxon and and European and and a small fraction uh Israeli. So why would
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I talk why would I spend time talking about Jewish values when it’s not
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relevant to the the the challenges and struggles that that we are facing um in
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America the the cultural issues that we face and indeed to the very evolution of
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uh western civilization. Western civilization evolved in the context of
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Christianity. You know that that’s a reality. It didn’t evolve in the context of Judaism.
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It didn’t evolve in the context of this particular version of the context of Islam. Although Islam played a much
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bigger role, Muslims, not Islam, Muslims played a much bigger role arguably
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certainly in the in the in the push of uh of of civilizing the West than Jews
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did be because they were the transmitters. They were the people who transmitted the
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knowledge of the Greeks to the west, not Jews.
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Muslims did did that. So, um
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you know, religion uh religion sucks and um
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across the board and um
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I’m not biased towards Judaism. You know, you could we could have a discussion about the relative virtues
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and vices of Christianity versus Judaism and and which version of Christianity,
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which version of Judaism and so on. We we could have that discussion. It could be an interesting discussion. Which one
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is worse, Christianity or Judaism? But that’s not that important. It’s not that
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interesting from the perspective of I reject them both from the perspective of the rejection of religion completely.
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All right. Uh, just a few other things.
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Somebody says the golden age of Islam. Yes. I’m I’m you know, I read a book I told you about this. I read a book about
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Central Asia, Islam in Central Asia and the the golden age, the enlightenment in in Central Asia in the I don’t know 9th
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to uh to 11th century. And that was amazing. That was a a really incredible
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book. And I’m reading a book now about uh Spain basically uh during the middle
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ages that is the Islamic conquest of Spain and then the erosion of that and um and and what happened there. Not as
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good of a book too um too engaged in the politics of it. This
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king did that and rather than in the intellectual it it’s not now granted the
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book is is is focused differently. It’s not focused on enlightenment. It’s not focused, but it it it still emphasizes
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the extent to which the uh the the
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uh fact that Christians were welcomed into Islamic Spain um into Indonesia,
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the the south of of Spain, which was which is uh which was Muslim for a very long time. um and and were allowed into
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the libraries and therefore copied and translated um the the the writings of of
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the Greek great Greek philosophers and and also the the Asian Islamic
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uh enlightenment was also being translated. And then of course there was um um a verz
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uh the great Muslim philosopher in Spain who was whoilian who was translated into
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Latin. That is what set off the intellectual revolution that made
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that that that led to the renaissance that led to western civilization. So you
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you cannot you cannot understand western civilization. You cannot understand the
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rise of of uh oftilian ideas uh the the even the creation of universities in in
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in Europe without an understanding of what they were reading, what was being translated, what was being uh what what
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was being transmitted into Europe from the Muslim world during this period primarily uh from Spain, primarily from
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the from the libraries and places like Kodoba uh and and later Uh
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God, what’s the what’s the Toledo uh in in uh for the north Toledo, which was
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occupied by the by the by the Christians pretty early and immediately they started translating everything and
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moving it out. So um
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yeah, I mean Andia was no paradise. So I Godside recommended the myth of Indonesian paradise one week ago. I
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don’t I don’t know if that’s the book I’m reading, but I am I’m I’m reading a book that basically says, “Yeah, it was
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no paradise.” And it certainly was no paradise. And I don’t even know what you mean by paradise. They were all killing
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each other constantly and and raping and murdering and fighting and infighting
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and and they were all in on it. The Christians, the the Muslims, the Jews, they were all scheming and and
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politically it was a complete disaster. And there was no stability and there really was no period of of of of
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paradise. But there were periods of great achievement p you know not so much
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in the sciences but philosophy you get u um mymonades and and uh avisa
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no avisenna is in Asia a verz and a verz and um and mymonades and and in poetry
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and in other cultural culturally it it thrived what politically it was it was just a complete and utter disaster and
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it was never a paradise in a sense that everybody was constantly ly discriminated against everybody, you
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know, it wasn’t um everybody again was slaughtering everybody. So um um a very
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verz. All right. So I want to say that’s also
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relevant because relevant to our discussion of of where civilization comes from and how it evolves and and
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relevant to the discussion about uh Christianity. Um uh but but I I just
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want to fill you in kind of on the books that I am uh that I am uh reading. Um
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God, where’s my phone? I didn’t bring my phone into the office. Okay, that is fine. Uh
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I want to say something else. No, I think that’s all I wanted to say as in a sense a backup. Uh you know,
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introduction wasn’t even really an introduction, but okay, let’s jump in. Let’s talk about Christian values and
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we’ll talk about the relation between Christian values and civilization. And let’s be clear here what I mean by
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civilization. What I mean by civilization uh is a is a culture of achievement. Uh
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a it’s a it’s a society a civilized society is a society where you see um
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great achievements in uh human life. that is in the arts, in architecture, in
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sciences, in the advancement of human well-being. Civilization
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I in a sense is a relative term because it’s contextual to the the period it was
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in. We talked about this last time when we talked about civilization, right? Egypt is a was a civilization when it
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was a civilization. If you took that civilization and planted in it today, it would be barbaric. It would be
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primitive, barbaric and and and and you know completely uncivilized.
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But in the context of its time, it provided stability. It provided a legal
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system. It it it provided some uh you know uh uh human achievement pyramids
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some dabbling in in in primitive science particularly astronomy um and um and and and some arts in in in
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Egyptian sculpture and things like that right so it’s relative to the time Greece is exceptional in a sense that
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much of that civilization would be civilized in any period except for the fact that
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Greeks had slaves and viewed slavery positively as a positive feature. Uh you
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know with some exceptions or some Greek thinkers who condemned slavery. Uh Greeks treated women you know awfully.
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Democracy or political participation was very very limited. Uh so it was
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civilized in some respects even today. But for its time it’s a civilization.
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It’s a great civilization. And it’s one of the great civilizations ever because it has features Greece that impacted all
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civilization following it and indeed would be considered civilized even today. So you know civilization is this
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thread that goes through history. Maybe it starts in Mesopotamia, Egypt, Babylon and Persia, Greece, Rome,
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Central Asia. Uh you know to some extent you know, Indonesia, um, Baghdad, uh,
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uh, southern Spain, and then I think comes to Europe, uh, as as a as a
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civilizing force, and and and Europe becomes civilized
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at some point, but it’s not civilized. There’s no Western civilization.
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I’d certainly say before the Renaissance and really no civilization in the sense of the achievements of the modern world
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before the enlightenment. So, so you know there’s no uh there is a
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Mayan civilization. There is a there are you know um
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American civilizations pre in in in pre uh pre- Europeans arriving here. Um
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those civilizations are civilized only in the context of the place and the time but not in time because there were
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already much more dramatic achievements in in other places.
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uh you know given the time but given the place they were improvements uh you know
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for for and and compared to the cultures surrounding them they were improvements the Mayan civilization the the Aztec
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civilization and so on um and of course there was Chinese civilization Indian civilization who were kind of parallel
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civilizations that in many respects got stuck and never really never really advanced
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into the modern world never really took the next step you know, beyond uh an
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organized society with a rule of law and a government, I mean, at least laws and
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a and a and a government and a declining violence and uh and some technological
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and material achievements, right? It got stuck. Those material achievements got
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stuck. They never made political achievements. Their philosophical achievements got stuck. they this you
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know uh conf Confucious and I mean there are a few others but it it it a a
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philosophical culture doesn’t evolve like it does u in Greece and then
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ultimately uh in uh in Europe. So so what we have
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um I is so that’s how I consider civilization. That’s what I consider civilization. And then the question is
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is civilization can we see a causal relationship between civilization
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and the Christian values? And so think about it this way uh you know can we see
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a a relationship between the the political achievements of the founding fathers and Christian values? Can we see
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a relationship between the aesthetic achievements of the Renaissance and Christian values? Can you see uh a
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relationship between the the the incredible scientific um scientific achievements of the
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Renaissance through the uh age of science and the age of reason and into the modern world
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through Christian values? Can we see the material advancement that happens starting uh you know sometime in the
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late 18th century through the industrial revolution uh through the 20th century? Do can we find those do those have a
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root in Christian values? Uh can we see the relative decline in violence that
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happens starting in uh certainly starting in the early 19th century uh to
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today in spite of the two world wars. Can we see the the decline in violence during a certain period in western
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civilization as anchored in Christian values?
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Uh so you know that’s that’s the uh that’s the the project that’s that’s
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what uh that’s what I uh that’s what I want to talk about today. We can’t cover
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the whole topic. We’ll take on a few a few elements and uh you know maybe we’ll talk about this again sometime in the
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future. Uh reminder to feel free to ask questions uh about about this or uh you
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know anything else but you know it would be particularly interesting if you ask questions about this topic or generally
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about civilization about history the history of civilization you know and all of that.
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Uh that would be the most interesting and I think useful uh if you could uh if you could do that. So uh we’ve got one
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question so far but it’s a $50 one so that’s cool. Uh, and of course you could support the show with stickers. All
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right. Now, in order to figure out what
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Christian values are, this is important. I turned to my uh to my uh uh basically
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um uh companion theologian, the the in-house, if you will, my in-house
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theologian uh to ask about, you know, what are core Christian values? And in
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my household, the in-house theologian is chat GPT 5.2. That that that’s uh that
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is uh that is where I get my theological advice from. Um now I I know for for
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some this will not be very satisfying. They would rather I uh I had a actual um
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you know theologian here. But you know alas I do not know any.
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And uh I I’ve discovered that Chad CPT does a really decent job. Like if you ask Chad GPT about Ein Rand um which I
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you know Einran’s view of this view of that uh it does a really good job of of summarizing a philosophy of addressing
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it. Now it’s wrong on some things and there’s some nuances that are wrong and it’s a little skeptical of objectivism
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but generally um it’s pretty damn good. Um, now I don’t I I I don’t have Gro
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Grock, although I guess I could use it through through Twitter, but I think Chat GBT seems to be uh quite good.
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Again, my my measure of quite good is is asking about something that I know and
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uh you know, I know objectivism, so I said about objectivism and um and it does uh it does it uh it does it quite
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well. Jason says, “Mormons will cook you dinner.” Um yeah, but would I want to
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eat it? I I don’t know. Mormon food does not strike me as appetizing. I apologize to any Mormons out there who might be
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great chefs, but uh but just generic Mormon food is not my thing. Uh you
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know, people are pushing saying, you know, Gro is more straightforward. You know, I wonder if I asked Gro what my
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core about core Christian values whether I’d get a different answer significantly. And the same with Gemini.
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Anyway, here we are. These are the core Christian values. Uh it’s got 10.
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I I get they’re they’re associated with the with the ten commandments and it’s separating from the ten commandments. I
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give it credit for not just giving me the ten commandments. Indeed, none of these are in the ten commandments
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explicitly. Uh so um uh you know number one love
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charity love and charity. So uh you know love god and love your neighbor love
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your neighbor as yourself. Um, you know, this includes compassion, self-sacrifice, and concern for the
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vulnerable. Okay. So, so love love uh you know not so much as an emotion but
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as a as a as a kind of a how do how does uh
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you know as um as as an action as as as as a guide to action.
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faith uh love faith uh trusting God, commitment to his teachings, um not you
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know this is this is about reliance on God, loyalty to God and and this is where where important truths come from
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it it it’s faith the most important truths come from three humility
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recognition of human limitations and dependence on God rejects pride and
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self-exaltation The last shall be first. The last should be first.
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Forgiveness. Forgiving others as God forgives. Uh, you know, and I find this weird.
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Forgiving others as God forgives. God is unbelievably unforgiving. Now, everybody tells me that that’s true of the Old
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Testament God, but the New Testament God is a very loving God and is a very forgiving God. Only if you follow his
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dictates to the letter. And even then it’s not clear, right? I mean, in the day of judgment, I go to hell. I mean,
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where’s forgiveness? Like, okay, I’ve sinned here and there, but
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you know, where’s the forgiveness to me? No, you go to hell cuz why? Cuz you were born Jewish and you’re an atheist. You
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go to hell. Tell what what you actually did in life. Hell is for you. I don’t know. Forgiveness. I don’t I don’t see
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that. Turn the other cheek. Turn the other cheek. Christians are very good at turning the other cheek.
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uh um justice, which is more righteousness
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and uh and care for the poor, oppressed and marginalized. Uh mercy, it’s often paired with mercy.
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Justice and mercy are related, right? And then another use of mercy is mercy
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and compassion. This is number six, I guess. uh showing kindness and and again
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some of these are repetitive ultimately because as we’ll see honesty and integrity truthfulness and word and
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action um and uh living consistently with one’s moral commitments self-sacrifice willingness to give up
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personal comfort for others I like the way Chad GBT puts it personal comfort
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that’s self-sacrifice Jesus gave up personal comfort to be put on a cross and nailed to it and suffer for an
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agonizing slow death. I mean, that’s a whitewashing of
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self-sacrifice. How about willingness to give up your life, to give up your values, to give up
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what makes you happy, to give up what’s yours for others.
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And then it says the second bullet point is modify modeled on Christ’s life and crucifixion. But the whole point of the
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crucifixion is it wasn’t just giving up a personal comfort.
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It was a lot more than that.
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All right, maybe I’ll try Grock. Maybe maybe Grock won’t won’t sneak in personal comfort kind of stuff in there.
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Obedience to God. Obedience to God, which I think is part of faith. Um,
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aligning one’s life with God’s will as revealed in the scripture and conscious and and conscience. Um, and then
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finally, hope, confidence, and salvation. Although most of you are not going to get salvation, you’re not going
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to get salvation, you know, and if you believe in Augustine before you were born, God already decided whether you
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were saved or not. So, forget it. Uh, resurrection and eternal life.
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Um, so hope, right? So here’s the thing. I
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mean, basically, what does this all boil down to? It boils down to faith. It
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boils down to faith. And and under faith, you can put in um obedience to
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God, and really hope I if hope is confidence in salvation, resurrection, eternal life, those are all based purely
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on faith. Uh providing meaning and suffering and adversity, that’s all faith. the faith that that there is
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something. So I would say you know one is hope sorry one is faith. Faith
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captures much of this right. A second is self-sacrifice.
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Self-sacrifice includes justice and mercy and and forgiveness.
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Uh they’re all captured under self-sacrifice, right? Self-sacrifice,
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justice, mercy, and forgiveness. So that’s that’s two. We got faith which
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captives hope, obedience to God and and and faith. And we’ve got uh and we’ve
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got um we’ve got self-sacrifice.
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And what’s the third one? What’s the third one? I mean third one would be I
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think humility. Um or yeah humility
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which is you know recognition of your own
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limitation and I would say this is also connected with love although love could be also related to self-sacrifice
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because that’s kind of the conception of love that they have their love is self-sacrificial their love is about
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compassion about concern for the vulnerable about loving your neighbor as yourself where they you know um
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so you know there’s humility yeah there’s kind of they throw in here two things like honesty and and uh what is
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it? Honesty and integrity. Um integrity.
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So okay, they have that in there. It’s in the ten commandments. Thou shalt not lie uh as duties, but uh you know does
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it that that that is really so different than all the other ones. Um and
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it you could add it but I I I don’t think it’s significant. I think the three that I want to focus on really are
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faith, self-sacrifice and humility. Faith, self-sacrifice and humility. And
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the question is to what extent the faith itself self-sacrifice and humility
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um encourage or discourage civilization? To what extent did they play a role?
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These Christian values, these essential I think Christian values that capture a lot of the other Christians values. to
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what extent did they really represent uh the the the striving towards and
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achievements of civilization? Think of a civilization that is built on faith,
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self-sacrifice, and humility. I can’t think of one.
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I can’t think of one because I don’t think that these are compatible with civilization.
30:22
Indeed, if you think of an era in human history where faith, self-sacrifice, and
30:28
humility were elevated above all else, were elevated as the
30:35
as the values that should dominate human life and should dominate human organ, you know, organization.
30:43
Then if you think about a period like that, then you get the dark ages and maybe part of the middle ages. Jennifer
30:50
says Jennifer says you get 1220 Europe. Yes, you get you get Europe or you get
30:57
you know the Muslim world since its golden age
31:05
faith. I mean civilization depends on what I I mean it
31:14
depends on great achievements. It depends on human flourishing and human success at living at creating the
31:22
material uh possibilities for living and and and and improving materially and and
31:28
benefiting materially. Uh human civilization depends on human uh
31:33
creativity. Uh things like arts and and architecture and uh and and you know and
31:40
beyond that science and technology and and they depend on being able to
31:46
create political forms that facilitate
31:52
the betterment of human life. Now none of that comes from faith.
31:59
There is no, you know, the the the Renaissance artists did not figure out
32:06
anatomy from faith. Indeed, the Christian church made it very very
32:14
very difficult for the Michelangelos and the Leonardos and the and the great artists of the of the of the Renaissance
32:21
to figure out anatomy because they banned dissection. They made it illegal.
32:27
They viewed it as a sin.
32:33
Faith does not give you Michelangelo’s David. It doesn’t even give you a even I
32:38
mean it doesn’t give you a a a Donatello’s David. It doesn’t give you a school of Athens.
32:45
It doesn’t give you a a a um kind of the the the amazing I mean
32:52
Leonardo da Vinci. He doesn’t give you any of his paintings where you know
32:57
where you can see kind of the careful detail of and and and emphasis on on
33:03
things like perspective but then of course on on express on expression on emotion on individuation on the idea of
33:10
of individ individuating the the the particular the particular people he’s painting.
33:18
None of that comes from faith. It you know it comes from studying human beings. It comes from it comes from uh
33:25
uh you know scientific analysis. It comes from experimentation with colors. It comes from a mathematical geometric
33:32
analysis of human perception and and uh and and as a consequence uh the
33:38
discovery of perception it comes from the study of anatomy even anatomy of the human face the muscles of
33:45
the face the musculature of the face. It comes from reason from the application
33:51
of rationality. Now all these people might have been Christian
33:58
but in that they were doing things that led to civilization in that they were enacting
34:04
causes that led to the to the effect that was civilization.
34:12
They were not acting on Christian values. They were acting on rational values. Rational values that they
34:20
recognized either because of the introduction of
34:25
rational values through Aristotle into the culture uh uh you know within
34:31
Christianity or implicitly or through their own realization.
34:37
But they were pursuing for example the Renaissance one of the things the Renaissance is really pursuing as a
34:44
value as an important value is beauty.
34:49
Beauty for its own sake as a value.
34:55
Now even though the Christian church in that period is doing the same thing it is
35:01
pursuing beauty but that’s not a Christian value.
35:08
That is a pagan value. That is a value they’ve taken from the Greeks.
35:13
The the the cathedrals are not meant to be beautiful. Indeed, the cathedrals are stock. The cathedrals have gargoyles on
35:20
them. The cathedrals have sharp edges that the that there’s so much about
35:26
making you look small, making you look insignificant as compared to the majesty and grandeur
35:33
of God. It is the discovery of Greek and Roman
35:39
art and the introduction of even architecturally,
35:46
you know, compare uh compare, you know, Renaissance architecture to
35:56
these ugly cathedrals. And you can see a different there’s a
36:01
certain harmony that is being sought in in the Renaissance. There’s certain sense of beauty. There’s a you know
36:08
edges are there’s a lot more rounding of things. They’re domes rather than spires. Uh there’s a lot more seeking
36:17
beauty and harmony. Beauty is a value.
36:24
It’s a value in in in in human life. But it’s a secular value.
36:30
that is then used by the church because the church wants to embrace lots of secular values. It want to make science
36:35
its own. It wants to make beauty its own. It wants to make art its own. If for political reasons, for for for power
36:41
reasons, right? I mean, why do the why do the popes make St. Peter so amazing
36:47
and beautiful and grand and they hire the best artists anyway? Is is this
36:53
because they’re following scripture or is it because they want to show the world how rich and successful they are?
37:00
They want to show the world uh you know the power that they have and they also want to entice people to come to church.
37:08
So church has beautiful music and it has great paintings on the wall and and uh and so on. So, you know, it’s it’s uh
37:15
for for the church, beauty is not an end in any kind of sense. And it’s not to
37:22
enhance human life. It’s to project power and to entice people in. To entice
37:29
people in. It’s used for the purpose of the church. But it doesn’t come from the church.
37:35
Again, when the church dominates, you get goals.
37:41
If you get any attempt at aesthetics,
37:46
you know, science, we’ve talked about this and we’ll talk about it many, many times because I find this so damn
37:52
condemning and so so um uh stunning uh
37:59
you know, particularly given the the re the um uh historians who want to rewrite
38:04
history to pretend that the dark ages didn’t exist. But science science I when when faith is at the forefront
38:12
then science does not advance it does not succeed that’s why
38:17
for a thousand years there was just no science I mean really there was no science in the west
38:23
for about 400 to about 1400 I mean there was a little bit here and there but
38:30
nothing of substance not anything dramatic and no culture of science no
38:35
civilization So faith,
38:42
you know, is anti-science. It’s idea and and so this is not an accident. Faith is anti-science. It’s
38:49
the idea the truth comes from God, from revelation, not from observation, not from experimentation, but from
39:00
revelation or from an ancient book. and and they they were so they were so I
39:06
mean the Christians were so immersed in faith, faith was such a dominant u value
39:13
to them that when they discovered Aristotle and
39:20
they had you know they they found him interesting and fascinating they took so
39:25
much of what he said on faith so that Aristotle’s scientific
39:31
observations which for for the most part are wrong.
39:37
They tried to defend as if it was scripture because their
39:42
whole understanding was Aristotle couldn’t be wrong. He was inspired by a by by revelation by by a holy whatever.
39:49
They didn’t understand the methodology that he was using which was anti-faith, pro- reason
39:59
but uh yeah anyway it it was it was um
40:08
faith is incompatible. It’s it’s incompatible with the civilization of
40:13
science and and and and beauty and aesthetics and and and and the creation
40:19
of those aesthetics. So some other values had to be snuck in. Some of the values had to enter in in order to make
40:26
the civilization happen. Those values of of of of beauty from from the pagan
40:32
world. Uh the value of reason from Aristotle, the value of logic from
40:37
Aristotle. And then the actual scientific work that the Greeks had done
40:42
and the Arabs had done, Asians, whatever, the Muslims had done
40:48
penetrating and and and people going, “Whoa, oh, you can do this stuff.
40:53
It’s not just the Greeks. Other people can do it. Maybe we can do it.” But those those ideas, the idea of reason
40:59
and rationality and observation and and the the possibility of of discovery
41:11
That is what makes civilization possible. Faith
41:16
is the an anti-ivilizational force. And indeed, as those values are entering, the church is fighting them. They’re
41:23
fighting against Aristotle. They’re fighting against science.
41:28
And to some extent, in early Renaissance, they’re fighting against the artists.
41:37
It’s controversial what artists are doing.
41:46
Um, so
41:52
faith incompatible with civilization. Incompatible with civilization. I’m going to go to
41:58
humility. We’ll leave self-sacrifice to end. Is humility compatible with
42:03
civilization? humility, the recognition of human limitation and dependence of God. I mean
42:10
really, where would we be without the arrogance
42:15
of a Newton or Galileo? I mean, you have to be pretty arrogant,
42:23
self-confident, self assertive to say to the world, you’ve all been
42:30
wrong. You’ve all been damn wrong.
42:39
I have the truth. I have discovered the truth. This is how the world works.
42:50
And you guys are wrong.
42:57
Humility. I mean was Michelangelo or I mean Michelangelo was not humble.
43:06
He could do with Mobo what he wanted to do with Mobble and he knew it and he
43:12
knew he was the best and he told people he was the best and it’s reflective in
43:18
his work. He is pushing himself. He’s striving.
43:24
He’s in he he’s he’s perfecting. He’s not depending on God.
43:30
He’s not contemplating his limitations.
43:37
I mean, and you know, you could argue that to the extent that he rejects pride, he suffers
43:44
for it. The last should be first. What civilization was ever built by the last?
43:52
By the meek, by the poor?
44:04
By the way, if you want to ask a question or make a comment or challenge me on something, super chat is open. That’s the way to do it. Don’t just
44:10
stick it in the chat if you want me to see it.
44:18
So, the comments today are hysterical.
44:28
Oh my god. All right. Um,
44:35
you know these the people who who who shoulder civilization, the people who build civilization, who create
44:41
civilization, who have made the modern world, which even if you reject, you are
44:47
massive beneficiaries of are not guided by humility.
44:52
They guided by a passion to seek out the truth to change the world to create
44:59
something beautiful.
45:07
Civilization was created by men who reject the value of humility
45:15
and embrace their own capacity for genius, their own capacity to shape
45:21
the world, their own capacity to understand the world free of faith, free of a reliance on a god, on mysticism.
45:36
I mean, do humble men create the United States of America? No.
45:42
These were men with supreme confidence and self-esteem.
45:48
These were not men that were the last. These were the men who were first
45:54
of immense intelligence
46:00
of immense capabilities and they knew it.
46:06
They were actors in reality. They weren’t guided by faith to establish
46:12
America. They weren’t guided by humility to establish America. They were
46:17
guided by self-esteem, love for this world.
46:23
love for freedom as individuals. As individuals
46:32
again they might have had they might have had you know presented
46:40
Christian ideals because that’s the world in which they live and that’s all they thought. I’m
46:45
saying they acted against those ideals. All I mean Newton was deeply religious. Uh Lach was uh you know Michelangelo was
46:55
no not so much
47:00
but they acted against that.
47:07
I don’t know exactly what Franklin meant by humility, but religious humility,
47:13
recognition of his limitations and dependence on God and rejecting pride and self-exaltation, the lash shall be
47:20
first. That’s not Franklin. That’s not Benjamin Franklin. Even if he wrote in his little book of virtues to be humble,
47:27
this is not the humility. It’s not Christian humility that he’s talking about. And you know, don’t be boastful.
47:32
We all can agree. Don’t be boastful. Don’t take credit for things you are not
47:38
responsible for. Don’t, you know, a a lord of other people because of your
47:45
success. There are lots of things that we can agree that might fall under something related to humility that
47:51
Franklin might be talking about, but in terms of what it means in Christianity,
47:59
no. No.
48:07
And finally, self-sacrifice. I mean, self-sacrifice fundamentally
48:13
means the giving up of personal values, of your values, of values that you
48:19
believe are necessary for your life, your happiness, for your success, for your flourishing for the sake of others.
48:27
giving up a high value for no nothing in return or something lower in return.
48:35
Um again that is not that is not
48:41
civilization. It’s not civilization building.
48:47
So sacrifice is what you demand of people who go to war for you.
48:52
It’s what you demand of your surfs. It’s what you demand of slaves.
49:06
But self-sacrifice, self-sacrifice is not a morality of value seekers
49:15
are people who are you know you know aggressively pursuing
49:20
passionately pursuing aggressively and passionately pursuing their values which is what you need to build a
49:27
civilization and to sustain a civilization and maintain a civilization. You need the creation of values, human
49:34
values, values necessary for human life.
49:41
I mean, a sacrifice would be to ask Michelangelo not to sculpt David
49:49
because I don’t know, there was some charity work that need be done. He need to he need to go and and feed people in
49:55
the soup kitchen. I mean none of the people who built
50:02
Western civilization, who created the civilization, who who who created the achievements, right? The science, the
50:08
art, the architecture, the the the the political freedom, political liberty
50:15
that this that characterizes modern civilization. Those people didn’t do it
50:20
as an act of sacrifice. Even when the founding fathers sign the
50:27
Declaration of Independence knowing that they’re likely to be killed because they’re likely to lose the war and the
50:32
British will execute them, they don’t view it as a sacrifice in a sense of giving up a higher value for a lower
50:38
value. They view their freedom as a high value,
50:43
a value they’re willing to risk their lives for. Same goes for the soldiers who fight to protect civilization,
50:50
defend civilization, sustain civilization.
50:55
It’s not a self-sacrifice. It’s not about mercy and compassion
51:03
and a willingness to give up stuff. And suddenly, nobody’s ever created
51:09
civilization by modeling Christ’s life. Christ’s life is stagnation.
51:16
It’s not elevation. It’s stagnation. It’s not progress.
51:23
The idea of human progress. The idea that we can achieve more
51:31
that is not a humble idea. That is not an idea based on faith. God doesn’t promise that anyway. He promises
51:39
salvation to some. But salvation has nothing to do with achieving material
51:44
prosperity or beauty or anything else in this earth other than sacrifice.
51:50
And sacrifice denies you the time, the energy, the focus, the ability to make
51:56
to achieve great things.
52:05
So um
52:10
there is um there’s no relationship between these
52:15
Christian values and the civilized in the civilized world
52:22
and civilization. I mean
52:27
compassion good thing but compassion doesn’t build civilization.
52:34
Mercy doesn’t justice in a sense of care for the poor
52:39
and oppressed and marginalized. I mean founding fathers the the the the
52:45
declaration of independence doesn’t talk about the poor oppressed and marginalized. Talks about individual rights.
52:51
All men are equal. Equal in their rights. Politically free as individuals.
53:01
Forgiveness. I just look at this. I mean, which of
53:06
these? And and I’m not even going to get to love because I think the definition
53:13
of Christian love is absurd and ridiculous because it relies on self-sacrifice.
53:20
We can talk another time about love. Jennifer’s compassion for whom?
53:26
Compassion for the last. The last shall be first. So compassion for the suffering. Compassion for the the people
53:32
who don’t have compassion for anybody except you. And of course hope hope is is is you
53:40
know entrepreneurs are not hopeful. They’re
53:46
doers. They go create the world that they want. They don’t sit around hoping for it.
53:52
They’re not confident in their salvation. They go create, they go build, they go make.
53:58
Again, entrepreneurs, you don’t function on the basis of faith.
54:04
I mean confidence, belief based on based on evidence in
54:10
your own ability and in the market and all that stuff, but not faith.
54:17
And entrepreneurship is not about self-sacrifice. It’s about working hard.
54:22
It’s about tradeoffs. It’s about giving up stuff.
54:32
Indeed, faith, self-sacrifice, and humility are anti-ivilizational values. And to the
54:41
extent that they are taken seriously, we know what they lead to. In spite of the idea of of love and and uh and and
54:49
forgiveness, I mean, did Charlemagne forgive those uh what were they?
54:54
Frankeshwell? I’m I’m not even sure what they were, but uh you know the 4,500 soldiers who refused to convert to
55:00
Christianity, who he slaughtered in one day, was that an act of charity, forgiveness, love? What exactly was it?
55:09
Certainly an act of faith. He believed God had had, you know, had
55:16
not commanded but but but and entrusted him to do the right thing. maybe viewed as a more act of justice
55:23
when when um heretics were burnt at the stake for disagreeing about
55:30
whether there was a trinity or what the relationship in the trinity between God
55:35
and the son whether there was literally a son whether they were co-equals or whether they were
55:43
all the same like I mean Catholic church post um post uh uh What do you call it?
55:52
Nika uh holds that it’s a three that are one, right? So they don’t believe in
55:57
ASA. The Catholic Church does not believe ASA. They don’t believe a thing is what it is. They believe something
56:05
three different things can be one thing. So three different gods can be one God.
56:15
And if you disagreed about that or or some minor implications of that or or
56:20
minor explanation of that, you were burned at the stake. I mean,
56:26
Calvin burnt somebody he was very friendly with and he actually respected because of a disagreement about the
56:32
Trinity in Calvis Geneva. But there was no tolerance for people who misinterpreted
56:39
the Bible. There was only one interpretation, Calvin’s in this case. And if you disagreed with it, it was it.
56:45
You were burned at the stake.
56:56
So um Christianity incompatible with civilization, incompatible with freedom.
57:04
Now I say incompatible that is to the extent that it is taken seriously to the
57:10
extent that it is embraced fully it leads to the opposite it is leads to
57:17
univilized to the extent that it’s just embraced at the margin then yeah
57:23
civilization can still exist Christianity is not adding to it it’s subtracting from it and it’s subtracting
57:29
from human flourishing but it can coexist if you Well, reason and faith
57:34
can coexist even though the the the the opposites and they’re driving
57:41
civilization in different directions, right? One univilized, one to civilize
57:46
and ultimately one has to win and one will lose. Um but again to the extent
57:52
that we are Christian to the extent we take it seriously to the extent that we’re going to be consistent about it to
57:57
the extent that we pursue it to that extent we are driving ourselves a
58:03
culture our world away from civilization towards a barbarity towards 1220 or 930
58:10
or 66. There’s go. There you go. 666. That’s a
58:17
good number. Um so my conclusion not surprising I think
58:24
to anybody out there um is Christian values incompatible with civilization.
58:30
Uh they hold civilization back. They uh they undermine civilization
58:37
and uh and to fully to fully embrace the potential that is
58:44
civilization. The potential that is freedom. The potential that is science. The potential is beauty and aesthetics
58:50
and art. The potential that is human achievement in any realm. The potential
58:55
that is love. The potential that is human relationships.
59:03
One needs to reject the Christian values. Now it’s not enough to reject them. You
59:11
have to replace them. And you have to replace them with values anchored in reality discovered through
59:19
reason. We are rational animal.
59:24
To live as nature in a sense to to live by our nature requires us to abandon
59:32
faith in the name of reason to bannon self-sacrifice in the name of our own thriving in our own flourishing
59:39
and to bannon humility in the name of pride a commitment to our own
59:46
success achievement perfection
59:55
So um yes um uh Christianity civilization they
1:00:04
don’t mix. I mean they mix but the one is polluting the other. Christianity is
1:00:10
polluting the um the element that is civilized.
1:00:19
All right. Um, thank you guys. Thanks for joining me. That was an hour. All right, we’re good.
1:00:27
Uh, super chat is good. Thank you. I appreciate that. We’re on a good track. A lot of questions.
1:00:33
All right, I’ll have to get through all of them. Um, let me remind you of a few things. Uh, again, you can keep asking
1:00:40
questions. That’s great. And if you don’t want to ask questions, you can you can do uh you can do stickers. Uh December 31st, we’ll we’ll be doing an
1:00:46
extended show review of 2025 and looking forward to 2026
1:00:52
um from 1:00 p.m. East Coast time until who knows four plus hours. Uh we’ll also
1:01:00
make that a big fundraising push, a fundraising event. So uh please um if
1:01:06
you’re not a a regular live listener, please consider coming live just to participate in the fundraising aspect of
1:01:12
it. It also be fun and and engaging and and uh we’ll have some fun banter and
1:01:17
back and forth. I might have some guests show up to take some of your questions. I’ll I’ll try to let you know in advance
1:01:23
once I know who’s going to come. Uh so that might also be uh might also be installed. But generally we’ll try to
1:01:30
make it fun and um and interesting and um there’ll be the suspense of can we
1:01:36
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the notes of PayPal under your runbook show, PayPal. Uh just write in the notes
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that it’s for the New Year’s Eve show so I know to attribute that money uh for
1:02:01
that show. Um all right. Um, let’s see if there’s
1:02:06
anything else I wanted to mention before we jump into your questions. You know,
1:02:12
we’ve got a bunch of sponsors. They’re down there. You can you can you can find the links down there. I’ll I’ll give
1:02:18
them full credit uh next show. And um yeah, Patreon, don’t forget to become a
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watch it live because that technically YouTube doesn’t allow me to do. You have to be a member on YouTube to watch them
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live, but you can watch them after the fact. You can watch all the shows uh uh
1:03:14
the membersonly shows after the fact on YouTube. Um uh you know uh I guess I
1:03:21
guess no you can’t watch them. You get a podcast version of them. So you get a podcast version of all the the
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membersonly shows that you can listen to. So uh that’s another perk that exists on Patreon. Um beyond the regular
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regular perks um those are unique to Patreon. Please consider becoming a monthly supporter as we enter into 2026.
1:03:44
It’ll be great to increase the number of people supporting on a monthly basis and of course the the the um
1:03:51
the dollar amount. All right, let me uh turn to your
1:03:57
questions.
1:04:05
Um, let’s doing this.
1:04:14
All right. Um,
1:04:20
let’s start with Andrew. $50. Thank you, Andrew. Advice for serious believers of
1:04:25
Catholicism in their youth who now consider themselves objectivists. To
1:04:30
avoid the rancid premise of suffering on earth as a supernatural value, one must
1:04:37
first come to know that acknowledging one’s pleasure is safe.
1:04:43
Yes, acknowledging one pleasure is safe and pleasure is good. Pleasure is to be
1:04:52
enjoyed. Embrace pleasure. I mean, make sure it’s not a sacrificial pleasure that you’re
1:04:58
not giving up a higher value for it. But pleasure, qua pleasure is good. It’s a
1:05:03
sign of life. It’s a positive sign. So, it’s the knowledge.
1:05:11
You know, pleasure is safe. It’s good. It’s a value. It’s pro-life. It’s pro
1:05:16
you. there’s no sin involved.
1:05:24
Um, also to those of you who were once Catholic and are now objectivist or or
1:05:31
Christian generally, I highly recommend Einran’s essay and you can find it on um
1:05:37
on um in the internet. You can find it for free on AI’s website. Um, duty
1:05:45
versus causality. Because I think that what happens to many people who come to objectivism from
1:05:54
religion, any religion, but primarily Christianity
1:05:59
is they then approach the objectives ethics
1:06:05
as duties. Einran rejects duty through and through
1:06:11
completely. She calls it an anti-concept. It is a destructive idea that undermines
1:06:19
morality, undermines ethics. I mean, we’ll have to do a show on this.
1:06:25
So, you’ve got to reject duty. And this is in the sense in which objectivism is not a religion.
1:06:32
You do not act out of duty in order to live your morality.
1:06:41
And she talks about the objectives morality is causal. You act out of an
1:06:47
understanding of causation. Instead of acting on duty, you un you
1:06:53
act based on values that are pro-life and the and what causes those values,
1:07:00
the actions that are necessary to achieve those values, those become your
1:07:05
virtues and values. So morality,
1:07:13
you know, religion tells you thou shalt, thou shalt, it’s your duty to do it. And
1:07:19
by the way, the more you suffer doing it, the more virtuous it is. Because you
1:07:25
know, religion fundamentally is anti-individual human life. It’s not a pro-life ideology religion.
1:07:33
It’s an anti-life ideology. But objectivism says no, don’t do it out of
1:07:39
out of duty. You must discover your values. You must figure out what’s good for you.
1:07:46
here’s some philosophical ideas but you must make them your own and those abstractions don’t give you
1:07:54
concrete guidance in terms of what to do in your life you have to figure that out so you know rationality reason is a card
1:08:03
of value in objectivism okay what do I do with that how do I apply it what does that mean in terms of
1:08:10
career love pursuit of anything
1:08:15
well You have to figure that out not subjectively, not out of emotion, but
1:08:21
through a process of causation. If reason is a value, what causes might
1:08:28
must I affect in the world in order to achieve it?
1:08:33
What must I do in my life in order to achieve the value of reason?
1:08:42
Oh, I I if if you want to be successful in your career, if that’s a value,
1:08:48
what must I do? How must I act? What should I cause in my life to achieve
1:08:56
success at work? So, you act on the basis of facts,
1:09:05
evidence, reality, and on the basis of values that are oriented towards your life.
1:09:12
And if you if you if you have a sense of
1:09:18
thou shalt be uh you know objectivism says that um
1:09:25
honesty is a virtue and and you are you have this thing in your head that says I
1:09:31
shall be honest. I need to be honest. honesty, you know, I’ve got s, you know,
1:09:38
then you haven’t, you’ve got to understand how honesty affects your life.
1:09:45
How honesty is just an application of rationality, how it’s a means to achieving
1:09:51
the value of reason. It’s a means to achieving the value
1:09:57
of self-esteem. It’s the means to achieving the value of happiness.
1:10:04
It’s not a commandment. It’s not a duty.
1:10:10
And suffering and pain are mostly signals with the exception of
1:10:19
exercise that something is not right, something is not working.
1:10:28
Whereas on the duty premise, pain and suffering is a sign of positive
1:10:37
So, uh, yeah, I mean, when you come to objectivism from religion, there’s a lot of baggage. There’s a lot of baggage and
1:10:45
you’ve got to be aware of that. And and and and I think Andrew is right in a sense. So one of the baggages or one of
1:10:52
the ways to you know uh uh realize you’re in a new
1:10:57
world now is to come to terms with the idea of the
1:11:03
of the goodness of the value of pleasure
1:11:09
molten splendor. Why does so many think that a charismatic objectives leader
1:11:15
will help? Socialism, Fuentes, etc. all have large followings. But aren’t they
1:11:21
just reflections of the culture? In my opinion, a reflection of an individualist culture, a a reflection of
1:11:28
individualist culture is more important than a new tribe. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. I I don’t think a
1:11:34
charismatic objectivist leader will help. There’s no harm be great but it’s
1:11:39
not going to make a big difference. It’ll attract a few more people. It’ll
1:11:45
increase maybe readership of Rand but this is the point to be a follower of
1:11:50
Fuentes. You don’t have to do a lot of thinking. You don’t have to do a lot of integrating.
1:11:57
You don’t have to do a lot of work on yourself. It’s pure emotion. The same with
1:12:03
socialism. I mean, you just it it’s it’s easy to
1:12:09
follow a leader in that respect because you just follow the leader and you
1:12:14
follow your emotions and you get angry when you when it’s appropriate and you Objectivism
1:12:22
requires that you think, integrate, understand.
1:12:30
And the most a charismatic leader can do is prompt you to do that. But then you have to do the work and there’s nothing
1:12:37
to indicate the culture people in the culture are ready for that work
1:12:44
ready to actually do the thinking to actually do the integrating.
1:12:50
Um but look the reason they think that is because everybody wants a shortcut.
1:12:57
We’re all frustrated by the fact that we don’t yet have an objectivist world. Well, frustrated by the fact that evil
1:13:03
and bad people uh uh uh uh succeeding politically certainly as much as they
1:13:09
are and and culturally as much as they are. And we want a solution and we want a solution now. And we’re not willing to
1:13:15
wait. And if only a great charismatic leader
1:13:21
came about and but but the only way he would gain large audiences is you’re
1:13:27
right if those audiences became a tribe. an unthinking following tribe.
1:13:33
What we need is cultural change. Cultural change takes a long time. It’s a lot of work. People have to do the
1:13:39
work themselves. Nobody can do it for them. No charisma can do the work for you. You have to do the work. You have
1:13:45
to change. And it takes generations. It just does.
1:13:53
There’s no shortcuts. No shortcuts. Sadly
1:13:59
or not sadly. I mean, this is it. It’s hard to be saddened by
1:14:04
um it’s hard to be sad by the metaphysical,
1:14:09
the the the the very nature of reality. There’s just no shortcuts. People have to do the work and work takes time and
1:14:17
and for people to realize they have to do the work is going to take a long time.
1:14:22
Andrew says, “I’ve observed something and wonder if you think it’s ominous. Christian aesthetics has improved
1:14:28
lately. Just one example in a series uh in a in the series Martin Scorosese is
1:14:35
directing the saints uh much more compelling and even beautiful at times. What does this
1:14:41
portend um
1:14:47
you know a rise in in in uh you know I don’t know I’d have to see the show and
1:14:53
to see to what extent is it really Christian right to what extent is it really uh
1:14:59
enforcing Christian values but look the reality is that we live in a world dominated by Christian values in many
1:15:05
respects certainly in the in the realm of ideas and in the realm of aesthetics I I mean socialism is fundamentally
1:15:12
Christian you know uh for instance is of course doing it in the name of
1:15:18
Christianity. So we we are surrounded everywhere by Christian values and did
1:15:25
did the fact that um did the fact that I don’t know Michelangelo sculpt the pieta
1:15:34
Christian theme you could even say the theme of the sculpture which might be um you know resignation
1:15:42
Mary’s resignation to to to the fate of her son um
1:15:50
you know did that make Christianity stronger maybe at the margin but it also
1:15:57
there’s also such a strong secular aspect to it
1:16:03
that I think it also weakens it at the same time. So it it depends what people
1:16:09
responded to. And I think they they much more responded to a a a humanized Jesus,
1:16:15
a strong powerful man, a a a beautiful woman mourning who who her love because
1:16:22
Mary in it is just as young as Jesus is. and and there’s a real there’s a real
1:16:28
secular aspect to it even if ultimately
1:16:34
the theme is she’s resigned to the loss right so
1:16:40
it depends on exactly what the art form is actually doing right he
1:16:46
look Christianity in some respects is on the rise um more people are taking it
1:16:53
seriously it seems to be gaining influence politically
1:17:00
generally. Uh I think we need to be worried, you know, and and I don’t know, you know,
1:17:06
Christian music is kind of silly. It’s just it’s just a a form of either rock or pop or or or country. Uh you don’t
1:17:15
have a Bach, you don’t have a a Moza doing a recquum. You don’t none of that
1:17:20
exists. So even if it’s Scosa directing the saints, it’s one element that that
1:17:27
the the you know to really have pro-ch Christian aesthetics,
1:17:33
you got a long way to go, particularly if you compare it to the Renaissance and and the Renaissance was a period of
1:17:38
decianization, not of intensifying Christianization. So I’m not too worried about any particular uh TV series but
1:17:46
maybe it’s a broader phenomena but uh all the themes of almost all the movies
1:17:52
are altruistic and and collectivistic and in that sense anti-vilivilization
1:17:58
and yet civilization just survives in spite of that for how long I don’t know but it survives.
1:18:05
pickaxing pickaxing in Europe on Europe. Um he says Finnish Bernstein a splendid
1:18:12
exchange recently. Incredible real heroic gems like ancient wheat being
1:18:20
traded by uh up to the Euphrates for copper and lapis and lazuli all the way
1:18:27
to the fallacy of the corn laws. I uh I was chuffed. Yeah. I mean it’s a really
1:18:32
really good book. I mean there’s some things later on when he gets to 20th century
1:18:40
and and and and current events that I think he’s compromising. But his history stuff is just amazing.
1:18:47
And yes, the the idea of trade in in a very very primitive society when
1:18:55
you know when they they didn’t have even have wagons and wheels and and they still managed to trade stuff uh you know
1:19:03
and or the amount of trade that was going on internationally
1:19:08
early in early in human existence or early in human civilization
1:19:15
because this is kind Um it’s just stunning. It’s just amazing. Um and uh and and Bernstein’s
1:19:23
it’s called uh it’s uh a splendid exchange is the book by uh the author’s
1:19:29
name is Bernstein. Uh it’s on Amazon. You can get audio book. You can get it uh book form or or Kindle. It really
1:19:37
really really is a good book and and it gives you a perspective on trade and and how it’s been part of human life pretty
1:19:44
much forever. Uh that is incredibly valuable. Shazbot, what would Einran think of
1:19:52
Chernobyl disaster? If she lived to see it, what would she think of their
1:19:57
current regime? Well, I don’t know. I mean, look, let’s be very clear. I do not channel rant. I
1:20:05
don’t know what she would think really. I mean I I I I I I can I can guess or I
1:20:11
can give you my my but she was an original thinker and always had perspectives and ways of approaching it.
1:20:17
She was a genius in ways I’m not. So there’s just no way for me to tell you
1:20:22
what I man would think, you know, but but I think it’s the obvious, right? She
1:20:27
she would think Chernobyl was expected and a consequence of socialism and
1:20:34
communism. I think the way it was um the way it was uh depicted in the miniseries
1:20:42
Chernobyl, I think it was on HBO or something like that. Chernobyl I think is very much aligned with I think the
1:20:48
way Iron Man would have imagined it happening. If you read Atlas Shrugged, it’s almost like some scenes in Atlas
1:20:54
Shrugged like the train uh like the train in the tunnel and other things. So um you know I think I think what
1:21:01
happened there is very consistent with what she did right uh w with what she she believed in what she she believed
1:21:08
how evil functions the way evil functions the evasion the the not taking personal responsibility to anything. I
1:21:16
think she she saw that she understood that she she understood that that was very much in the nature of communism.
1:21:25
In terms of what she would think of the current regime, she would she would again I don’t think she’d be surprised.
1:21:31
She believed that in that Russian culture was in was very much mystical uh
1:21:38
superstitious and mystical and and and very much relied as a consequence on a
1:21:44
um powerful authoritarian leader. And I don’t think she’d be surprised at
1:21:50
Putin’s authoritarianism and at the relative pacivity of the Russian people. I mean, not all of them. Many of them
1:21:56
left and and many of them object. But most of them, the relative pacivity of the Russian people, just like they were
1:22:02
passive under communism, they’re passive under Putin. So I don’t think she’d be surprised at all that Russia became
1:22:09
authoritarian in a different way than communism, but still essentially authoritarian u with the fall of
1:22:15
communism. molten splendor. Kindness rocks.
1:22:23
Altruism, guilt, self-sacrifice sucks. Yes. And kindness rocks to people worthy
1:22:30
of kindness. I mean, there’s some people I would not be kind to. I I’m a big
1:22:35
believer in, you know, some people deserve hate. Some people deserve to be treated badly. So,
1:22:41
kindness rocks to people you don’t know or to people to people you have uh to
1:22:47
people of whom you have no reason to think ill of. But to people who you think ill of, you
1:22:54
shouldn’t be kind. Um yeah,
1:23:00
thanks Smolton not algorithm. Uh some days I think the enlightenment is just too vigorous for
1:23:07
ideas as silly and primitive as Christianity to undo it. But when I see what the Republican party has devote
1:23:14
devolved into in such a short time, it’s hard to say. Yeah. I mean, it is hard to say. the the the the I I have a this
1:23:21
strong sense that the enlightenment has been weakened dramatically over the last 20 years and and it’s it’s we’re living
1:23:29
through times right now that are truly scary and and I mean I’ve been watching
1:23:35
some of the Turning Point USA stuff. I’ll talk about it on Monday.
1:23:41
God and and and the I’m on Twitter a lot so I see a lot of these stupid heritage Americans. I mean
1:23:48
the the barbarity the primitiveness the uh of of this idea of heritage Americans
1:23:55
my 11th grandparents that’s 11 generations earlier came on the Mayflower my 10th
1:24:03
this founder was a founding father and this you know like what have you done and and and what does that have anything
1:24:09
to do with you they and and how many of them were slave owners and how many of
1:24:15
them were criminals And how many of them did horrible things? Because if you go back 11
1:24:21
generations, that’s a lot of grandparents. A lot of grandparents. That’s a lot of people. Some of them
1:24:28
were really bad. So what does it mean? Nada. Not. And yet
1:24:35
they take it so seriously. They’re so intent on it. They’re so committed to it. I mean, I couldn’t imagine just a
1:24:42
few years ago that America would become this collectivistic, this tribal, this racist.
1:24:48
I mean, I guess should have known better because it has a racist past, but I did not I think that was something America
1:24:56
powerfully had overcome and and to see it reverting back to it,
1:25:01
unbelievable. Uh, Swisser, excellent show and presentation today. Happy holidays to
1:25:07
you and yours. Happy holidays to you too. Merry Christmas, happy new year and um all the rest. Lori, please talk about
1:25:16
the process challenges in writing your book and how you overcome them. Came. Oh,
1:25:25
the process challenges. I’m not sure what process challenges are. By the way, we we just signed a deal with an agent.
1:25:32
I’m excited. Um I don’t know. I think most of the challenges are intellectual.
1:25:39
Most of the challenges intellectual and suddenly I don’t think there’s really I mean Don is a good writer. I’m a good
1:25:46
editor. We both can hash out these things. So process is I think pretty
1:25:51
down. You’d have to ask Don if he feels differently. I think the main thing is
1:25:57
um that the intellectual stuff is hard. So
1:26:04
how do you how do you conceptualize Christianity for example like there
1:26:10
million different types of Christianity right every little protestant sects has a different interpretation what’s the
1:26:16
essence what are the essentials of Christianity and how do you do it in a way that doesn’t come off dismissive
1:26:26
of all the different Christian variations how does it how do you Yeah but even Jesus they’re like mult
1:26:32
multiple interpretations of Jesus. Jordan Peterson has an interpretation of sermon on the mount which is different
1:26:37
than than I think Pope X’s and Pope Y’s and Pope Z’s. They all have different ones. So what is the essence? What are
1:26:44
you criticizing in Christianity? Right? So so you have to do that. Again, you have to do it unless you’re just writing
1:26:50
for an objectivist audience. You have to do it in a credible way that a a a Christian audience or mildly Christian
1:26:56
audience because I don’t think we’ll convince anybody who’s thoroughly Christian, but a mildly Christian audience. So somebody raised in
1:27:02
Christianity would recognize it. And then how do you untangle
1:27:08
the fact that in the same geographic area at the same time you have these
1:27:15
opposite forces functioning. You have Christianity functioning
1:27:22
and you have call it Greek ideas orian ideas functioning.
1:27:28
And Christianity at least nominally seems to embrace some of the Greek
1:27:34
ideas. So to what extent does it embrace Greek ideas because of the nature of Christianity and to what extent is it
1:27:41
embracing ide Greek ideas in spite of its nature of Christianity? And I think it’s in spite of Christianity. But how
1:27:47
do you show that you know because because um and and because a lot of
1:27:53
Christians will say see we we embraced Aristotle. We brought reason into the west and it’s like you did that in spite
1:28:00
of being Christian not because you were Christian. Christianity fought against it
1:28:06
or Christianity core ideas fought against it. So all of that untangling
1:28:13
that’s the most complex I think the the layout of historical
1:28:18
the sequence historically of you know the introduction of Greek aratilian ide
1:28:24
well well the the decline of Greek ideas in early Christianity and the going into the dark ages and the rediscovery of
1:28:31
Greek ideas in uh in in the late middle ages and or or the early middle ages and
1:28:36
then more so in the late middle ages that leads to the Renaissance leads to the enlightenment leads to the modern
1:28:41
world that I think we have right that that I think is Einran lays it out and I I you know I think we’ve I think we have
1:28:47
a a deep understanding of that um but even there what is important what
1:28:53
is not important you know is is complicated uh but I think it’s untangling how do you separate that from
1:28:59
the the story of Christianity
1:29:05
um so Um
1:29:12
yeah uh I mean a lot of people claim that Christianity is responsible for a
1:29:19
conception of the individual. Um uh but but you know the the I don’t I don’t
1:29:25
think that’s even true. I think there’s a that conception of the individual the conception of I a conception of a of a
1:29:32
individual mind already exists in Greece. So I don’t think that was invented by Christianity. I you know I
1:29:38
really so there are a lot of things that people throw at you as the different virtues of Christianity dignity I don’t
1:29:44
know equality of man and yet Christianity abided by slavery for a very long time and and and but then the
1:29:52
the the many of the leading abolitionists were Christian. So how do
1:29:57
you how do you do that? I mean all the southern slave owners were Christian and use Christianity to justify slavery. But
1:30:04
then all the abolitionists or a significant number of the abolitionists were like Quakers and and and I mean
1:30:09
committed Christians not not just marginally Christians. So how how do you how do you explain that? So it’s that’s
1:30:14
the complication. It’s an intellectual issue of figuring out what’s essential and what’s not and how to how to
1:30:20
untangle it all. Right.
1:30:32
All right. Andrew, um, do you agree that this with this as a general point
1:30:38
regarding pity? An emotionally connected person allows himself to access all
1:30:43
emotions including pity. But Christianity says to maximize it, pity is an intense emotion. Don’t play with
1:30:51
it. Well, I don’t know what playing with an emotion is, but
1:30:57
you know what does pity mean, right? I mean to feel sorry for somebody I mean
1:31:03
if you’re rational you only feel sorry for somebody when they deserve that feeling that is now because you have
1:31:11
baggage you might feel it when it’s undeserving when you shouldn’t feel it in a sense but you feel it. So what
1:31:18
objectivism teaches you is your emotions are what they are you feel them you recognize them and then you evaluate
1:31:25
whether they deserve taking action or not. based on Christianity says it’s it’s
1:31:32
pity is a essential emotion on which you should always take action. It’s an essential emotion that should guide you
1:31:39
in life. You should pity the poor. You should pity the weak.
1:31:44
But I don’t pity the poor. I pity some poor. I don’t have the emotion of pity towards
1:31:50
the poor. I have an emotion of pity towards the the unjustly poor. But if I
1:31:56
see a bomb a, you know, the the example I always use, if I see a white beating drunk who’s poor, I don’t pity them.
1:32:07
I mean, if anything, I it’s a sense of justice. They’re poor because they deserve to be poor. So, there’s a
1:32:13
deserving poor and there’s an undeserving poor. And to the extent that you’re going to respond emotionally,
1:32:20
it’s um you should you should be responding emotionally in a sense of I guess pity is a is you’re feeling sorry
1:32:27
for them. You you you feel for them. You you you your you you have empathy for them in some sense. You you only want to
1:32:34
do that for people who don’t deserve to be poor. Um,
1:32:40
so Christianity doesn’t discriminate. I don’t pity my enemy,
1:32:48
you know. So, so while you take your emotions as they
1:32:53
are, you also should evaluate them in a sense of
1:32:59
do they come from a from the right place? Do they come from from the place
1:33:04
of love or from a place to use ginoni I guess terminology or from the place of fear
1:33:13
Andrew the impassion part of Ran’s answer on how we can teach our children
1:33:18
not to be ashamed of success do not teach them to be humble. Yes.
1:33:24
Yeah. Take credit for your work. Take credit for your success. Again, it doesn’t mean to be boastful. It doesn’t
1:33:31
mean to to lord over others over your success because it’s not about other people. It’s about you. I succeeded. I
1:33:38
did it. I built it. I created. It’s exactly opposite of of of what’s his name? Um Obama’s You didn’t build that.
1:33:45
You should be humble. You didn’t build it. No, I did build it.
1:33:55
Um, NM, if a Christian today is being overall
1:34:01
good and rational, why do I need to pick a fight by telling them, “Oh, those, oh,
1:34:07
those aren’t your aren’t your Christian values?” If a Christian today is being
1:34:12
overall good and rational, why do I need to tell? Well, because they might not be
1:34:18
tomorrow. that is tomorrow they might hear a different sermon and interpret
1:34:23
those values differently and become more Christian and therefore become worse.
1:34:28
And as long as you’re Christian and you hold faith, there’s only so much happiness you can attain. There’s a cap
1:34:36
on your ability to be rational and therefore successful and therefore uh
1:34:41
happy. So, uh, you’re doing them a favor by telling them
1:34:48
here’s the real nature of the values you’re pursuing and you should be more consistent about it. It’s good for their
1:34:53
life. And secondly, you want to arm them not
1:34:59
to be captured in the name of Christianity by the values that would do
1:35:04
you harm and all of us harm. So truth is a good thing.
1:35:10
reality is a good thing. Knowing what people really, you know, people knowing themselves is a good thing.
1:35:19
Uh Liam says, “Will you be on the panel with Steven Pika this?” I, you know, I don’t know. I assume not because I
1:35:25
haven’t heard, but I I just don’t know. I don’t know who’s going to be on and I have not heard anything one way or the
1:35:31
other. So, I assume the answer is no because I assume they’ve already planned it. But, you know, I don’t know.
1:35:37
Um, I’m I’m not involved in the planning of it. Hopper Campbell, thoughts on retiring in
1:35:44
Santa Barbara, California versus Orange County. God, I mean, I I I don’t know. Santa
1:35:51
Barbara strikes as more expensive than Orange County. Orange County has a lot more variety in terms of housing and and
1:35:59
places to live. Um, Santa Barbara is smaller and and probably more expensive.
1:36:05
Um, Santa Barbara is more beautiful if you can, particularly
1:36:11
if you can get something on the hills overlooking the ocean. It’s gorgeous. It really is amazing. Orange County to get
1:36:17
a house that overlooks the ocean is very expensive, but it’s probably very expensive in
1:36:23
Santa Barbara. I get a sense that Orange County has more stuff to do,
1:36:29
but I’m not sure. I don’t know Santa Barbara that much. It has a symphony. It has opera coming there once in a while.
1:36:36
LA is not that far, particularly if you can drive off hours, off rush hours. You can get to LA in less than an hour
1:36:43
sometimes. And then there’s all the benefits of LA. Uh there’s a lot more
1:36:48
probably a lot more restaurants in Orange County, particularly given that you can get to LA. Um so, but look,
1:36:57
weather in both places is great. Ocean is right there. Views are great. um
1:37:04
expensive places to live but but yeah wonderful in many regards many respects
1:37:09
and you have to tolerate California James 100 years from now will AI be
1:37:16
bigger than the than the church um you know my powers of prophecy are very
1:37:23
limited powers of prophecy are very limited um
1:37:29
so I don’t know I hope So I hope so and and uh there’s a chance I don’t know how
1:37:36
to put a probability on it. 100 years is a long time but there certainly is a chance we will be
1:37:43
Andrew materially the the the year 2025
1:37:48
standard of living in America like living in heaven on earth. The citizens the civilized world wasn’t built for the
1:37:56
sake of teaching heaven but for the betterment of man on earth. I’m not sure what you’re getting at,
1:38:02
Andrew, but I’ll just say, yeah, it’s uh nobody’s satisfied and nobody should be.
1:38:09
The point is more more more we’re greedy. Human beings, rational human
1:38:16
beings are greedy. Um, healthy human beings, put it this way, healthy human beings are greedy. If
1:38:23
greed means you want more, and um we want more. We want flying cars
1:38:29
for God’s sake. Uh we want materially more. We want spiritually. We want more. We want more success. We want more
1:38:37
prosperity. We want more fun. Want more pleasure. We want more. So 2025 was like
1:38:43
living uh living on was living in a in an amazing world materially and it could
1:38:49
be much much much much better and we should strive for that. Yeah. I I I don’t think it was well
1:38:55
worded because I didn’t quite understand it. Robert, uh, every year, every one of these
1:39:02
values is reimagined by the better among contemporary American Christians. I know
1:39:07
faith is risk tolerance, humility is knowing your limitations and avoiding secondhandedness and fake pride. Love is
1:39:14
benevolence and embracing values, which makes discussing the underlying
1:39:19
contradiction within these issues challenging at best. Yeah. But when you push them,
1:39:27
when you push them, the altruism comes out,
1:39:32
the Yeah. At the end of the day, you know, they believe in a god and god
1:39:39
has certain things that they must do. At the end of the day, it affects their epistemology and it suddenly affects
1:39:46
their ethics and their ability to to to experience pride, their ability to to to
1:39:51
gain self-esteem, their ability to to to be, you know, uh uh even more ambitious than
1:39:57
they are. So, yes, I think it’s hard, but a lot of that is rationalization.
1:40:04
And what you need to do is ask some questions that help kind of, you know,
1:40:12
reveal the what is being rationalized and and and and what is behind it all and and
1:40:20
the fact that no, they accept they accept these definitions. They just have
1:40:26
they know they’re anti-life at some level and they they don’t want to live that life. So they’ve they’ve redefined
1:40:34
them. They’ve they they’ve put them to the side, but they haven’t completely given up on on them because otherwise
1:40:39
they’d have to give up on being Christian. God is still there and altruism is still there. That that
1:40:45
undermines them and that’s what you need to help them see.
1:40:50
Molten Splender says, “I’m sorry I missed your missing link talk, but I did enjoy listening to it later. Please do
1:40:56
more of these.” I Yeah, I intend to. Thanks, Molten Splender. I intend to
1:41:02
um I like numbers. When did Europe become civilized?
1:41:07
I think during the enlightenment. I think in the um uh mid600s.
1:41:16
You know, you can’t certainly the 30-year war was not a civilized thing.
1:41:23
Certainly the Inquisition was not civilized. So I’d say post30 war
1:41:30
um early 1700s late 1600s somewhere around
1:41:35
that the enlightenment basically that’s when it becomes civilized it becomes a little bit it becomes more peaceful of
1:41:40
course it becomes much more peaceful in the 19th century um you know rulers are
1:41:49
viewed with a lot more suspicion in in in Britain uh you had a much more
1:41:57
assertive parliament and a significant reduction in the power of the king. Um,
1:42:03
and there’s a certain tendency around Europe for a little bit of that, although not in France. They have to go
1:42:09
through a revolution to get that. Um, but it it certainly becomes it’s
1:42:15
becoming civilized intellectually, scientifically, peacewise, and
1:42:20
politically. And of course, you could say it’s civilized in 1776.
1:42:26
Now, that doesn’t mean bad things don’t continue to happen. Slavery, for example, that only gets but it’s on a
1:42:32
path starting in the late 17th century. It’s on a path
1:42:37
for progress for for progress materially and progress spiritually and progress politically. So, the America is the
1:42:45
consequence of that. JJ Gig, your thoughts on the film A Man
1:42:52
of All False Seasons. I rewatched it recently and thought it was great. I tried to imagine how you would interpret
1:42:58
it. Yeah, I mean I love that movie. It’s a really great movie. Um
1:43:03
it’s it’s a movie about integrity. you know, integrity to false values, but still integrity and and uh and and the
1:43:10
the the the evil of kind of an authoritarian king, a whim worshipping
1:43:16
authoritarian king and a man standing on principle. Uh so it’s to the story of Thomas Moore and King Henry VIII and uh
1:43:24
yeah and and it’s really well acted and and really well directed and and the
1:43:30
dialogue is excellent. Yeah, I mean I I really like that movie. if you haven’t seen in a long time, but I remember it’s
1:43:35
uh it’s up there. It’s up there in uh in my movie lists. Andrew, does integrity to self-sacrifice
1:43:43
suicide is that in that sense do do the monks who set themselves on fire for
1:43:50
social cause achieve the utmost moral good? Well, I mean by their sick
1:43:56
morality, yeah, but that’s not morality. So they don’t they they they they they achieve their more good. But you know
1:44:03
some people would argue that by dying it doesn’t allow them to help more poor
1:44:09
people. So probably not right. So the ideal is suffering through life while
1:44:15
wanting to commit suicide and helping other people while hating helping them.
1:44:21
That’s the ideal. That’s utmost moral good. The outro small good is staying
1:44:26
alive in spite of the pain, the suffering that you experience in order to help other
1:44:33
people and to and to eat and take care of yourself just enough so that you can
1:44:38
keep staying alive so you can help other people. That’s the ultimate good. That’s why
1:44:44
Mother Teresa is a saint. Robert. Oh, this splitting long question
1:44:52
with multiple super chats like I just did is definitely cheating. You’re very charitable for not criticizing you. Why
1:44:58
would I criticize you? It was completely legit. I mean, if you’d done it in one
1:45:04
question as a $20 question, I would have answered it earlier sooner. So, if anything, it was it was hurting you. It
1:45:12
No, it wasn’t cheating. Who who who suffered from the cheat? Who did it
1:45:18
cheat at the expense of? All right. Um Jeff, if we support
1:45:25
freedom of speech and separation of church and state, how do we achieve the removal of religion from government and
1:45:31
schools without silencing them? Well,
1:45:37
you don’t remove it in the sense of
1:45:42
um that the president is religious. The president can be religious.
1:45:49
What it means to remove it from government is that it affects it should not affect
1:45:55
legislation that it should not affect governing.
1:46:01
And there’s a sense in which that’s almost impossible if if you know
1:46:07
particularly in a democracy where people uh can vote anything uh in a sense that
1:46:14
people are influenced by their values and if their values are Christian they’re going to vote
1:46:20
Christianity. But a court could say the prime the the reason this the reasoning
1:46:26
for this law is fundamentally religious and therefore we
1:46:32
strike it as unconstitutional. Now you can silence people in the context of
1:46:40
schools and in the context of lots of things right. Um I can silence you on my
1:46:46
on on here on my um on my chat. So if you perceive government schools as at
1:46:54
least in their functioning pseudo private property the private property of I don’t know the parents or whatever of
1:47:02
the school uh board then the school board gets to determine the curriculum. They get to decide who to platform and
1:47:08
who not to platform. It’s absolutely not the responsibility of a school board to to to maximize
1:47:15
speech to allow for all perspectives to be presented. No, they have to make a decision about in the name of educating
1:47:22
the kids what should be and shouldn’t be presented. Now, ideally, there are no
1:47:28
public schools and no government schools and then private schools get to decide what should and shouldn’t be in the
1:47:34
curriculum. Free speech does is not a contradiction to to
1:47:42
deplatforming as long as the deplatforming happens in the context of private interaction.
1:47:53
um like numbers. Was Rock wrong to pity Keing?
1:47:59
Look, there’s a sense in which the whole relationship between Keading and Rock
1:48:04
doesn’t really make sense to me. Like Rock keeps helping Keading.
1:48:10
To what end? you know, he’s being benevolent, but it
1:48:16
it sometimes there’s a friendship there that doesn’t quite make sense. So the only reason I think that Rogue would
1:48:22
pity Keading is that he sees something in Keading that I don’t see that is a a
1:48:30
source of their friendship that is a real value and he is he pers him because he he can
1:48:38
see his potential if he taken a different route if he had um if he had
1:48:45
uh not made or committed the errors or it’s not
1:48:52
errors, the evasions that he did when he was young, right?
1:49:00
But I don’t pity Kitty. I think he gets exactly what he deserves. Jason, in the 2000s, Peacoff on his
1:49:08
podcast pointed out how concerning and unsettling the mere notion of motorcycle
1:49:14
bikers have their own Christian ministries was. Now it’s normal in my
1:49:19
town and on TV. Yeah. And it’s everywhere and and there many ministries
1:49:24
everywhere. It’s it’s it’s these, you know, Christianity catering to every little group, every little tribe that
1:49:32
comes about. They have they develop their own theology for them. All right, we are only $13 short of our
1:49:40
goal. Let’s let’s try to make it. We’ve got 10 minutes. 10 minutes is a hard stop anyway. So, uh, you know, there’s
1:49:46
somebody come in with $13 question and, uh, so we can we can There we go. That’s 10. Uh, Andrew just did 10, so we just
1:49:53
need three now. Um, FJ Fang, I’ve just realized I don’t like
1:49:58
my parents or have anything in common with them. I’m struggling with this. Yeah, I mean, it’s normal to struggle
1:50:04
with it. Um, the question is, do you have any feelings towards them because
1:50:11
they raised you? because they gave you life. Um,
1:50:19
is that a value to you? The fact that they raised you and gave you life, did they raise you well? And and so to what
1:50:25
extent is that a positive that you want to that you want to recognize and accept
1:50:30
and and and and therefore, you know, give them
1:50:36
a certain minimal level of of respect and appreciation for that. But if you don’t like your parents and and you
1:50:42
don’t have anything in common with them, then you’ve got you should adjust your relationship accordingly. I mean, don’t
1:50:48
hang up with them a lot. Don’t spend a lot of time with them. You know, whatever it is your valuation, your parent is and your emotional and your
1:50:55
commitment to them. Figure out what that is and adjust your interaction with them
1:51:00
to that. So if you appreciate them because they raised you okay and you you
1:51:06
appreciate the fact that they gave you life but you don’t it’s not that you dislike them it’s not that you hate them
1:51:11
it’s not but you just don’t have anything common with them you don’t like them that much they’re not they’re not your kind of people then minimize your
1:51:17
interaction with them don’t cut them off completely because you still have some that basic appreciation for them but but
1:51:26
if you don’t then cut them off completely that is I’m not against that but in other words Adjust your
1:51:31
relationship with your parents to the extent to which they are value to
1:51:38
you. And don’t feel that you have to do more
1:51:44
than that because they’re your parents and you should honor your father and your mother. So says the Bible. Andrew,
1:51:52
I think you should use this show to organize your material for the book. It was really well structured and
1:51:58
impactful. Thank you. Um, Lincoln. I mean, I’m I’m I’m doing
1:52:04
that in a sense because this really helps me think through some of these issues and then I go back to the book
1:52:09
and it it’s it verbalizing it really makes it it clarifies it to me. Don
1:52:15
listens to it. I think it helps clarify to him or at least it clarifies what I’m thinking to him and then we can have a
1:52:21
discussion about it. Lincoln, why is Christianity more common in America than Europe even though the US was founded by
1:52:28
large secular enlightenment thinkers? Um, I think because
1:52:36
I think because it wasn’t a state religion, it was allowed to morph and and and uh
1:52:47
and uh into all kinds of sects and all kinds of interpretations
1:52:52
and de develop in a way that made it consistent with America as it emerged in
1:52:57
the 19th century. So the the the conflict between modernity and
1:53:03
Christianity didn’t become as evident because it kind of u
1:53:10
Christianity kind of absorbed America or incorporated America into its theology.
1:53:15
This is the point that Robert was making earlier. Most Americans their theology is American.
1:53:21
I I tell them often that they love Jefferson more than Jesus and they love the and they love the Constitution more
1:53:27
than the Bible. So they made it part of it. Uh I think that also there were no
1:53:34
really leading intellectuals in uh in America were kind of
1:53:40
really secular and pushed a secular agenda until kind of the pragmatists. Um whereas in Europe
1:53:48
uh I think there was a real secularization among the intellectuals. uh very early on there was kind of a
1:53:56
diminishing of religion to some extent u or secularization of religion and of course there was there was this
1:54:04
massive secularization of religion that was done by by Marx um you know
1:54:09
basically secularizing religion into into his view of communism. Um
1:54:15
there were other things. I mean Europe really secularized after the first world war. First world war was such a horrific
1:54:20
event for them. It was so disorienting. The idea that it could be a god and the
1:54:26
first world war happened was just beyond them. Uh it it was similar to the 30-year war which led to the
1:54:32
enlightenment. I think the first world war led to um secularism but also to cynicism. Um
1:54:40
but it’s a good question. And I don’t have a full answer to it. It it would require real analysis.
1:54:47
Lincoln says, “How can a career in the military be self-interested? I like the idea of being in the military part-time
1:54:53
by the National Guard, but it feels a bit and I didn’t I don’t have the second part of the question, but let me just
1:55:00
answer that. Look, you can it feels a bit the military at the current administration is against my values.”
1:55:06
Yes. I mean, I I I think you’d you really have to be questioning about
1:55:12
whether to join the military under the conditions of this administration or any other administration because they’re all against your values, uh, you know, in in
1:55:19
this modern world. And what are you fighting for? You know, it’s not clear. So it’s it’s I think it’s a difficult
1:55:25
much more difficult decision today to join the military than it would have been in the past because of the nature
1:55:32
of the country, the people and and and and our politicians, our leaders
1:55:37
uh and and and including by the way the generals and what they will tell you to do or not do and which is which I think
1:55:44
really damaging. Um, but to make a career of it in a rational
1:55:51
rational world, I don’t see a big issue there. I mean, it’s it’s a challenging position. It’s it requires a lot of
1:55:57
thinking. It requires uh action. It it’s yeah, it requires in, you know,
1:56:05
strategy. It it’s it’s a challenging interesting profession. you know how to
1:56:10
how to defend how to how to defend militarily, how to use the military to defend values.
1:56:18
Andrew, my manager gave me a good advice regarding a person who reports to me who is objectively not doing her work and I
1:56:25
was defending her. She said, he said, “You’re not her savior, Andrew.” That is very good advice. Yes.
1:56:32
Yes. You can’t save people. It’s not your job as a manager to save people. Your job is to objectively evaluate them
1:56:39
and give them that objective feedback and treat them with justice, which
1:56:44
means, you know, positively if they’re doing good job and negatively if they’re doing a bad job. Lincoln says, “Thoughts on
1:56:51
LDS Moment Church?” I don’t have a lot. I don’t know that much about them. I mean, I it’s a crazy story. If you
1:56:57
listen to the story of how the church came about, you know, anybody who believes that has to be a little cuckoo,
1:57:03
but that’s true of of all religion. they just modern modern people believing in
1:57:08
that is just bizarre. Modern people coming up with that uh theology is bizarre. Um but generally if you if you
1:57:17
go to if if you interact with Mormons, they’re hardworking, they’re honest, uh they’re quite productive, they’re
1:57:24
nice people, you know, they they seem quite friendly. Um,
1:57:29
so, um, yeah, I mean, they they they they seem pretty normal in spite of the
1:57:35
kooky theology and and the question is I my guess is most of them just don’t take
1:57:40
that theology very seriously. Uh, you know, they they they very quickly abandoned polygamy
1:57:47
when it become when it became politically inconvenient for them. So, they obviously don’t take theology that
1:57:52
seriously, right? I mean, polygamy was part of their theology. And then they were told if you in order to become a
1:58:00
state, you would have to embrace monogamy. And they did in order to
1:58:06
become a state. So, uh, they rewrote the rules just like Christians do all the
1:58:11
time. The the Mormons I’ve interacted with have mostly been positive people.
1:58:18
Um, and but I also know a lot of people who left the church. Actually, there’s a number who become objectivists
1:58:25
and they have a much more negative view of the church, right? Because they’ve lived it. So, I’m sure that if you live
1:58:31
it, it’s not pleasant at all. And if your parents take it seriously, to the extent that it’s taken seriously, it’s
1:58:36
not pleasant at all. The extent that it’s taken seriously, it’s bad, just like all religion.
1:58:42
All right, guys. Have a great rest of your weekend. I will see you on Monday. Um my schedule got a little screwed up,
1:58:49
but anyway, we don’t have an interview on Monday, so we’ll just have a show on Monday. The uh Nikos interview is a week
1:58:54
later. Uh so um yeah, uh I will see you
1:59:00
then. Thanks all the super chatters. We made our goal just squeaked in perfectly. Thank you and uh yeah, have a
1:59:07
great weekend. Bye.
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