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Title: FIRST STREAM IN 9 MONTHS
(0:01) Don't say that it's all in your faith
(0:04) when you're standing my way. You know
(0:06) I'm loing.
(0:28) Oh,
(0:36) hey.
(0:46) Hey.
(1:20) Uh-huh.
(1:37) Hey.
(2:10) I know.
(2:15) I know.
(2:19) Hey, hey, hey.
(2:56) back. He
(4:20) baby.
(4:24) Fan
(4:41) Hey,
(4:50) hey, hey.
(5:28) Hey, hey, hey.
(5:55) Perfect.
(6:10) How long do you usually watch?
(6:11) >> Hour to two hours depending on how we uh
(6:14) how we vibe.
(6:16) >> Okay, cool.
(6:19) >> No, you can you can stream. That's fine.
(6:21) We're waiting on um
(6:23) >> Hey there. Nice to meet you.
(6:26) Good.
(6:29) We're waiting on uh Destiny and he just
(6:32) DM' me your boy. So I'm assuming that
(6:34) means soon he will be here.
(6:36) >> Okay, perfect. I'm going to
(6:43) >> speak of the devil. Okay.
(6:45) >> What? I'm the devil now?
(6:48) >> Now? What do you mean now? You've always
(6:51) been Okay. Okay. Give me one second.
(6:58) Okay.
(7:03) Grab some water, then we'll go live.
(7:05) >> Cool.
(7:06) >> And I am
(7:06) >> I'm live on my end. Don't say anything
(7:07) crazy.
(7:08) >> But I will hang out as long as I can.
(7:11) >> Yeah, sure. If you have a heart out,
(7:13) then we can adjust.
(7:15) >> Not super hard, but yeah, I'm actually
(7:16) I'm headed to LA tonight. So
(7:18) >> Oh, fun. What you is it is it a business
(7:21) trip or you going
(7:22) >> just actually no my girlfriend and I are
(7:24) just going she went to Pomona so we're
(7:25) going to go see a bunch of her college
(7:27) friends and visit visit the campus etc.
(7:29) So
(7:30) >> excellent. We're gonna get uh we're
(7:32) going to get right into it then as soon
(7:34) as uh Erdog gets back and we'll just
(7:36) start the show.
(7:37) >> Awesome.
(7:38) >> Yeah, your show with Shannon was great.
(7:40) I appreciated that. I I I'm glad you
(7:43) liked it and I'm I'm hoping that people
(7:45) kind of uh uh were able to take some
(7:48) stuff away from that and we're going to
(7:49) get into some of the some similar things
(7:51) tonight, I'm sure, and uh kind of get
(7:53) your perspective. I read your article
(7:55) that you wrote for the bull work. It was
(7:56) it was very good.
(7:57) >> Thank you.
(7:58) >> And uh yeah, I wanted to to touch on
(7:59) that a little bit tonight as well. But
(8:02) um hopefully uh Erdite will be here in a
(8:06) moment.
(8:07) >> Perfect. Back two. See, now Destiny's
(8:12) going to leave and then Erdite's going
(8:13) to be back and then we're going to be
(8:14) waiting on Destiny. And that's just how
(8:17) this show goes today, apparently. Um,
(8:23) see I of course
(8:27) one leaves, the other comes back, and
(8:30) then the other leaves again, and then
(8:32) Ardite should be back here hopefully in
(8:35) a moment.
(8:36) >> I'm always here.
(8:38) >> Always. Always. Um, you excited to go
(8:40) canvasing in Michigan? Are you Are you
(8:42) going to the Michigan canvasing event,
(8:44) Destiny?
(8:45) >> Yeah.
(8:46) >> Okay, that'll be fun.
(8:47) >> You mean the one that you have to go to
(8:48) digital groundgame.org/midterms
(8:51) to sign up for? Yes.
(8:53) >> Excellent. Which all of you should do.
(8:55) Um, I'm going to be going to the one in
(8:56) the Pennsylvania. I'm not going to be
(8:58) able to make the Michigan good one, but
(8:59) that's okay. Okay, we're here. Let's get
(9:01) this started because we have limited
(9:03) time. Okay.
(9:06) Welcome, welcome, welcome one and all to
(9:08) yet another episode of WIC TV. It's a
(9:10) cross ideological space where we come
(9:12) together to talk about issues both
(9:13) political and cultural from the silly to
(9:15) the serious gang. Today we have a great
(9:19) show for you. We're going to be talking
(9:22) about the state of play for the
(9:24) Democrats coming into the midterms and
(9:28) uh what some might call the Democratic
(9:30) influencer problem. Uh we got some great
(9:33) guests with us today and we're gonna I'm
(9:35) going to give them a chance to introduce
(9:36) themselves and then we're just going to
(9:37) get right into it. Uh we're gonna Kon uh
(9:40) how about you start us off. Tell people
(9:42) who you are, what you do, uh why we
(9:44) should listen to you, etc. Go ahead.
(9:46) >> Sure. Well, I'll let you judge if you
(9:48) should listen to me after the show. I'm
(9:49) Kyon Shro. I've worked in Democratic
(9:51) politics for the last 10 plus years. I
(9:54) was on the digital team at Hillary for
(9:55) America. Recently was a delegate for
(9:58) Vice President Kla Harris. Um I'm
(10:00) everywhere. I'm on YouTube at Kaibon
(10:02) Media. I have a podcast called Extremely
(10:05) Reasonable, aimed at sort of having
(10:07) exciting, interesting conversations that
(10:09) don't just lean into going to the far
(10:11) right or the far left. Um, and I'm on
(10:13) all social media, just my name. I'm
(10:16) really excited for this chat because I
(10:17) caught your conversation with Shannon
(10:19) Watts, a friend of mine, and really
(10:21) think that people who don't necessarily
(10:24) fall into the sort of typical online
(10:26) ecosystem of commentary need to speak up
(10:28) more um because we are seating so much
(10:31) ground to uh extreme ideas and voices.
(10:35) >> We're going to get into that and ways we
(10:37) can combat that as we go. Uh Erdite, why
(10:40) don't you tell people who you are? It's
(10:42) been a while.
(11:07) We'll be as gentle as we can. Thank you.
(11:10) Well, thank you for being here and I
(11:12) appreciate you taking time out of your
(11:13) day to come and talk with us. Uh, and
(11:16) Stephen, please go ahead.
(11:17) >> Yep. I'm a I guess I would say a
(11:19) politics streamer now. Um, I probably
(11:22) lived and breathed this space.
(11:24) And then we uh as a community done a lot
(11:27) of organizing on the ground canvasing
(11:29) and stuff for things from the city level
(11:30) to the um state and federal levels and
(11:33) yeah obviously very opinionated about
(11:35) all the stuff going on today as an
(11:36) influencer who has been involved in
(11:37) politics for a long time and then
(11:39) frustrated with people's inability
(11:41) sometimes to see or understand how these
(11:42) two spaces are coming together.
(11:44) >> Okay. I guess my first question uh for
(11:47) you Kyvon um you've been doing this for
(11:50) a while. Um, how does the current
(11:54) environment when it comes to messaging
(11:56) and uh I guess for lack of better word
(11:59) infighting within the Democratic party
(12:02) um has is is this a normal thing or is
(12:06) it ramped up? What what is your opinion
(12:08) on this kind of the state of things? Go
(12:10) ahead. Yeah, you know, I actually I had
(12:12) near a tandem on my show a couple of
(12:15) days ago and we were talking about this
(12:17) because it does really seem like the
(12:19) infighting in the Democratic party has
(12:21) become so extreme. And part of that is
(12:23) because digital politics was a great
(12:25) opportunity to get a lot of folks
(12:27) interested and involved. And 10 years
(12:29) ago, you know, on the Clinton campaign,
(12:31) it was very sort of preliminary how
(12:34) folks were engaging in that way, just
(12:35) putting out messages from a campaign.
(12:37) Now you have people who really have a
(12:40) lot of incentive to have their tribe win
(12:43) within that discussion. And what you see
(12:45) is people taking a lot of local races
(12:48) where it's a great fit candidate for
(12:50) that region, that state, that community,
(12:52) and then superimposing national politics
(12:55) onto that every single day. And I think
(12:59) that has led to a really toxic
(13:00) situation, including for candidates, by
(13:02) the way, who know their community, but
(13:05) don't want to weigh in on a national
(13:07) issue that doesn't impact the people in
(13:10) their daily lives in their communities.
(13:12) So, so much of that was, you know, on
(13:14) display over this last primary cycle.
(13:16) And we even see it in the general
(13:18) election. You know, a good example, I
(13:20) think, is um Kate Connley up in up in
(13:23) New York here uh against Mike Lawler was
(13:26) supposed to be a really tough race for
(13:29) Lawler and he's been pulling better than
(13:31) expected. One of the things I think I've
(13:33) been looking at is, you know, why don't
(13:34) you see Kate Conley everywhere? Why
(13:36) don't you see her on every, you know,
(13:38) Midas Touch style show or clipping
(13:40) things up to go viral? And I think a lot
(13:42) of that is because she has a nuanced
(13:44) position on Israel and she knows and her
(13:46) campaign probably knows that the minute
(13:48) she gets attention for, you know, a
(13:51) great exchange in a debate with Lawler
(13:52) and puts that on social media, well then
(13:54) somebody's going to find her comments
(13:56) that they don't like on those topics and
(13:58) start, you know, giving her that purity
(14:00) test and making her be a a national
(14:02) figure in a way that's not serving the
(14:04) Democratic party that's just trying to
(14:06) elect a coalition of people to stop
(14:09) Mega.
(14:10) >> Okay. that yeah a great answer and a lot
(14:13) of information in there. What what are
(14:15) your thoughts Kyla and Destiny on this?
(14:17) Go ahead.
(14:20) >> Um so um I'll start broad with a quick
(14:23) analogy. So one thing that I've argued
(14:25) for a long time when argued about a
(14:27) bunch of different topics is that the
(14:28) internet has changed the way that we've
(14:29) engaged with the world in so many
(14:30) different ways and people don't always
(14:31) see that because it's become so
(14:33) ubiquitous throughout our lives. Um, one
(14:36) thing that's illegal to do in financial
(14:37) markets is I can't take me and a friend
(14:39) and go and buy 30 40% of a company, pump
(14:42) the price up, talk about it publicly,
(14:43) and then when other investors jump in,
(14:45) sell everything on the higher price and
(14:47) basically pump and dump, right? The um
(14:49) the um the FEC would come after, not the
(14:51) FC, the SEC would come after me for this
(14:55) uh because it's illegal. But what do you
(14:57) do? And there's a good reason for that
(14:58) because we don't want like, you know, a
(15:00) few people to drive up a stock price to
(15:01) scam investors. But what if you had that
(15:03) same behavior on a decentralized
(15:05) platform like Reddit, right? We saw this
(15:07) with the GameStop thing where what if
(15:08) you get a bunch of retail investors
(15:09) together and they have these same kind
(15:11) of mechanisms driving them, but now it's
(15:12) like decentralized. I don't know
(15:14) sometimes if the u because of the volume
(15:17) that goes through these stock markets if
(15:18) if everything even on your major
(15:19) exchanges can survive having a whole
(15:22) bunch of retailers throw money at it.
(15:23) You might be able to create these weird
(15:24) market distortions that people at the
(15:26) SEC or in the past would have just never
(15:28) thought possible because retail
(15:29) investors on their own don't command
(15:30) that much money when you look at some of
(15:32) the things that are happening on like
(15:33) the national political scene today. Um I
(15:36) really like that I'm sorry how do you
(15:38) pronounce your name? Say that one more
(15:39) time.
(15:39) >> Honor Kyon. Okay. Um I'm just going to
(15:41) get Kevin in my head. I just haven't
(15:42) even thought about it when I read it.
(15:43) Um, I like what Hyan said as people on
(15:46) the internet sometimes it's very
(15:47) tempting to say, you know, why don't we
(15:50) have ABC policy? It polls at, you know,
(15:53) whatever percent. And it's like, well,
(15:54) because we don't vote on policies by
(15:57) national referendum ever. That's just
(15:58) not a thing we do in the United States.
(16:00) And one of the things that's made the
(16:02) fights with particular, well, I'll say
(16:04) with the DSA challenging is that what
(16:06) the DSA is able to do is they take
(16:07) national level interest and then they
(16:09) fixate it on local elections. Um, and
(16:12) local can mean just like a state senate
(16:14) race for like a federal senate for a
(16:15) congressional senate, but like in um in
(16:17) a particular state and the issues that
(16:19) the people care about in that state are
(16:21) going to be a lot different than what
(16:23) the national level political program of
(16:24) the DSA might be. And it creates these
(16:26) really weird effects where sometimes you
(16:28) want to cater to your DSA types because
(16:30) you might raise a lot of money. Um, but
(16:32) then other times you might be taking
(16:33) positions that might not be popular in
(16:35) the state. And I find that some of the
(16:36) battles that are playing out there are
(16:38) just causing really weird distortion
(16:40) effects. Um, I think the funniest tweet
(16:42) that I saw, a few tweets that I saw over
(16:43) the past four days were people saying
(16:45) things like, "I'm so incredibly
(16:47) disappointed in Mayor Mani because I
(16:50) voted for him because of what he was
(16:51) saying about Palestine." And in my mind,
(16:54) I'm like, you voted on a on the mayor of
(16:57) New York for his foreign policy? That's
(16:59) that's not even close to his job. He
(17:00) doesn't do anything related to this.
(17:01) Like, what are we doing here? And yeah,
(17:03) that these have been challenging issues
(17:06) for the Democratic party to deal with.
(17:08) Yeah, I'll say for a whole bunch of
(17:09) different reasons down here for that,
(17:10) but that's yeah, broadly speaking, what
(17:11) I'll say on that.
(17:13) >> Um, yeah, I'll just to to speak up
(17:15) essentially, I'll just tack on I think
(17:17) that the DNC has a really big struggle
(17:19) of balancing good policy with populist
(17:21) rhetoric that sells right now and is
(17:23) sexy. Um, they're also deeply deeply
(17:25) riskaverse. Sometimes for good reason
(17:27) and a lot of times not for good reason.
(17:29) And then as somebody who works a lot now
(17:32) on the back end, they're
(17:32) bureaucratically slow. they're just it
(17:34) they're just so impossibly slow to get
(17:36) anything moving and rolling and there's
(17:38) 16 different people that have to have
(17:39) checks and balances. So there's a lot of
(17:40) strange kind of like uh incentive
(17:42) structures built up within the DNC and
(17:45) kind of democratic institutional side to
(17:47) be effective say for example in new
(17:48) media which is only one category that
(17:50) they need to be effective in. I would
(17:51) say it's the area that they're probably
(17:52) floundering in the most right now. Um
(17:54) and so they're oftentimes losing in
(17:57) frankly optics reach and name
(18:00) recognition as a result of that. But the
(18:02) reason that they're flowning in new
(18:03) media is like complicated. I think Kyvon
(18:04) has identified some issues and Stephen
(18:06) has as well. Those are my first
(18:07) thoughts.
(18:08) >> So, one of the one of the things that um
(18:10) I hear all the time and is discussion
(18:13) with circles I am in and I'm I'm curious
(18:15) uh Kyon in in the circles that you are
(18:17) in uh if a similar discussion is
(18:20) happening. There is this kind of debate
(18:23) on how much we should push back against
(18:25) some of the more national level kind of
(18:28) rhetoric that is being foisted upon
(18:30) local politicians. Should we speak up
(18:33) about it? Should we talk? Should we like
(18:35) give it oxygen, right, some of these
(18:37) issues or should we simply just kind of
(18:39) let them go off, express their uh
(18:43) express their opinion and not really
(18:45) talk about it and focus more on MAGA and
(18:47) more on Trump? I guess what's kind of
(18:49) the the the feel for the people you you
(18:52) speak with and in the circles you run in
(18:54) and what are your thoughts on the
(18:56) subject at hand?
(18:57) >> Well, I think most people in the
(19:00) operative space do agree that you always
(19:02) want to do a politics of addition and
(19:04) not subtraction. And so their impulse is
(19:07) not to actually go out and criticize.
(19:09) But the reality is, especially I do a
(19:12) lot of cable TV, a lot of times we don't
(19:14) get to pick the topic. We don't get to
(19:16) talk about what we're what we want, you
(19:18) know, all the time and neither do
(19:19) candidates. And so it's not that the DNC
(19:22) gets to decide, okay, these are the
(19:23) topics of the week. It's Hassan [ __ ]
(19:26) went out and said something insane and
(19:27) now every Democratic candidate is going
(19:29) to be asked that whether they think
(19:31) that's a good topic to cover or not. And
(19:33) so eventually you do have to respond.
(19:35) And I think that a lot of times because
(19:38) people are so afraid of, you know, what
(19:40) happened in 2024, what happened in 2016,
(19:42) where they felt at least, and I think
(19:43) the data backs it up, that a big segment
(19:46) of the left, whether it was 10 to 12% of
(19:48) Bernie primary voters who ended up
(19:50) voting for Donald Trump or what happened
(19:51) to Kla Harris in 2024, the left doesn't
(19:54) show up and they don't want to alienate
(19:56) those folks. At the same time, then they
(19:58) allow that message to persist. And I
(20:00) think you also have to ask the question
(20:03) to to Steven's point um about Mayor
(20:06) Mumani this week, right? Because I think
(20:08) if there was a case um that you'd hold
(20:11) up as an example as the DSA to say,
(20:13) "Look, you said we can't govern. We can
(20:15) govern. Mani is incredibly popular. He's
(20:18) won over doubters. Crime is down. You
(20:20) know, the rent did get frozen at least
(20:22) temporarily." That's the case you'd want
(20:24) to point to. But what do these folks do?
(20:26) What does a Hassan [ __ ] figure do? What
(20:28) does DSA do? they show up and now
(20:29) they're protesting him. And so at some
(20:32) point when somebody's sort of economic
(20:35) incentive and attention economy
(20:37) incentive is to be a critic and an
(20:40) outsider poking at whoever's doing
(20:42) something in office. You kind of have to
(20:45) draw a line on how much you're going to
(20:47) listen to them. And I think Mum Donnie
(20:49) even kind of made that point perhaps
(20:51) unintentionally because he said, you
(20:53) know, I'm the mayor. This is what I
(20:55) signed up for. But take that to its
(20:57) logical conclusion, which is that if
(20:59) protest of the mayor is inevitable, no
(21:02) matter who they are and no matter what
(21:03) they're doing, no matter whether they've
(21:05) said it's a genocide or not, then you
(21:07) kind of just that's part of that's like
(21:10) the weather. I mean, right? You can't
(21:12) really react to that then on a
(21:14) case-byase basis if it's always going to
(21:16) be there. So, I think that's part of the
(21:17) problem. And I do think the Democrats
(21:19) struggle to message. You know, first of
(21:21) all, I think there is a lot of
(21:22) misconception about what the DNC
(21:24) actually does and its power over
(21:26) messaging and all of that. That's kind
(21:28) of a separate conversation, but my
(21:30) takeaway and I I know we're talking
(21:32) about influencers today. I think it's
(21:33) very relevant because basically after
(21:35) 2024, there was this panic that
(21:37) Democrats had suddenly lost the internet
(21:40) and that if Kla Harris had gone on Joe
(21:42) Rogan, everything would be different. I
(21:44) think what what the response has been is
(21:47) to dump millions and millions of dollars
(21:49) into these influencers who I don't think
(21:52) you could point to many of them and say
(21:54) have they changed one voter's mind and
(21:57) that is a crazy thing I think you know
(21:59) like not to say nobody with a platform
(22:02) is changing minds certainly some people
(22:04) are listening but I think it's much more
(22:06) the platforms where they're talking
(22:08) about 20 topics in a day and one of the
(22:11) 20 is political and the right is very
(22:13) good at smugg muggling some facts and
(22:15) some, you know, bias in in those
(22:17) platforms. But somebody going on Pod
(22:19) Save America, somebody, you know,
(22:21) chatting with Harry Sizen is not going
(22:23) to be somebody that's persuading that
(22:25) audience because that is a very
(22:27) committed democratic audience. And so
(22:30) just having content and, you know,
(22:32) creating really what are safe spaces for
(22:34) these conversations for politicians is
(22:37) not interesting. It may get engagement,
(22:39) it may get views, but I don't think it's
(22:41) moved the needle at all. And then on the
(22:43) other hand of the spectrum, you have
(22:44) folks like Keith Edwards and Hassan who
(22:47) are gaming an algorithm, who are like
(22:49) playing outrage politics, who are often
(22:51) spreading disinformation. And I don't
(22:53) think it's productive for us to get in a
(22:56) race to the bottom either. So very
(22:58) concerned on where Dems are headed on
(23:00) the internet. Yeah, I'm just curious for
(23:03) uh for Kyla and and Destiny like uh
(23:05) hearing this hearing kind of this this
(23:08) uh um outsiders p insiders perspective I
(23:12) guess is as as we'd say. Um h how do we
(23:15) how do we respond to that? Should should
(23:17) we as influencers ourselves be pushing
(23:21) against these other influencers? What
(23:22) are what are your thoughts? Go ahead.
(23:24) Um, if I could actually So, I'm cur I
(23:27) don't know Kyon yet and so I'm curious
(23:29) about like which parts of what networks
(23:31) he's a part of. Um, because I'm
(23:32) recognizing a couple of your talking
(23:34) points that I've heard through talking
(23:35) to different Senate staff and whatnot.
(23:37) Um, and I don't know yet if Kyon is in
(23:40) the know and understands internet land
(23:41) well and is a good advocate for us
(23:43) because I just don't know you yet or if
(23:44) he's like actually like one of the
(23:46) people that I look to within the DNC and
(23:48) go I think that you are more misinformed
(23:49) than you realize and I genuinely I don't
(23:51) know which person you are. I'm hoping
(23:52) that you're the the the the former. So,
(23:55) one of the things that I've noticed
(23:56) about working with a lot of these
(23:58) elected candidates is they're deeply
(24:00) deeply unreactive. So, do they spend a
(24:02) lot of money going on like certain
(24:04) platforms? Yes and no. So, they're
(24:06) simultaneously spending a lot on creator
(24:07) programs and spending actually very
(24:09) little comparative to other types of
(24:10) programs. Um, one of the reasons for
(24:12) this is because a lot of the funds that
(24:14) go towards ground game and these types
(24:16) of media funds are actually going
(24:17) towards legal funds. like the DSC, so
(24:19) the Senate committee, they're spending
(24:21) most of their ground game money on legal
(24:22) funds because they're constantly they're
(24:24) the only thing blocking Trump from
(24:26) basically making the midterms stolen,
(24:29) right? They're the ones that block the
(24:30) USPS stuff. They keep on having all
(24:32) these different injunctions. So, a lot
(24:34) of money is going disproportionately to
(24:35) legality, which is actually really
(24:37) limiting the amount of spending.
(24:39) Democrats also have about half to like
(24:41) onethird of the spending money as
(24:43) Republicans, just like across the board
(24:44) right now. um funders are really not
(24:46) putting their money into any like
(24:47) Democrat programs. The second thing that
(24:49) happened happens a lot of times is that
(24:51) these senatorial staff or these
(24:53) congressional staffers, they don't they
(24:55) hire like one young person to do their
(24:57) media and they go, "Well, they're young.
(24:59) They know media." And the issue is not
(25:02) everyone young was born on the internet.
(25:04) Okay? Not everyone understands the
(25:05) depths of it, right? Which is why, for
(25:07) example, you'll get like Ken Martin
(25:09) going on like Emma Vigaland and Pod Save
(25:11) America and being like, "What? They
(25:13) don't like me?" Right. So, there's a
(25:16) massive amount of complete ignorance in
(25:20) most Democratic institutions that I've
(25:22) talked to. Most staffers and and all
(25:24) these different branches, even the
(25:25) bipartisan left-leaning think tanks
(25:28) really don't know the first [ __ ]
(25:30) thing about new media. They have no idea
(25:31) what they're talking about. So, they're
(25:33) throwing a lot of money at it, but
(25:34) they're wasting their money. This is why
(25:35) they'll pay like Valkyrie and Pokemon to
(25:38) talk to Bernie Sanders for like an
(25:39) undisclosed large amount of money. But
(25:42) what did it do for them? nothing.
(25:44) Pokemon was on her phone half the time,
(25:46) right? It was it was a terrible
(25:47) investment. So, they're trying new
(25:49) media, but they are not informed enough
(25:51) to use their money effectively or
(25:52) wisely. And they're constantly playing
(25:54) catch-up, right? They hear about
(25:56) Clavvicular's clip program. That break
(25:58) new story breaks on New York Times. All
(26:00) of a sudden, I'm getting all these calls
(26:01) about clip programs when it's like,
(26:02) "Guys, we've been telling you about clip
(26:04) programs for 10 months. Why aren't you
(26:07) listening then?" But they're just
(26:08) they're not reactive. They don't know
(26:09) who is actually knowledgeable. and they
(26:12) don't know who's knowledgeable because
(26:13) Democrats like heristic sense of who to
(26:16) listen to often comes down to resume and
(26:19) uh education, right? So, they want
(26:21) somebody with a fair fair bit of
(26:22) education. What's the education to be
(26:24) good at? Like memes,
(26:26) being born on the internet, I guess like
(26:28) like me and Stephen know more than the
(26:31) average person with a master's degree
(26:32) who might study this stuff on internet
(26:34) culture, right? So, one of them is
(26:36) ignorance and the second one is
(26:37) reactivity. um because there are so many
(26:39) stop gats, there's so many they want to
(26:41) test their messaging and focus groups
(26:43) and all these different things. They're
(26:44) slow. They're just always so slow to get
(26:46) out there to react to be quick and um
(26:48) their lack of agility just means that
(26:50) they will always be behind and their
(26:52) lack of information means that they will
(26:54) always have campaigns that don't hit on
(26:56) new media at least.
(26:58) >> And is was there a specific talking
(26:59) point that you didn't agree with or
(27:01) didn't like? Just so I can follow you.
(27:03) I'm a little sus about, for example,
(27:05) there's a really big push right now in
(27:07) amongst a number of Democrat programs
(27:09) where they want to try to work more with
(27:11) non-political creators because they're
(27:13) like, man, if we like talk to culture,
(27:15) that's who we pull. And I'm just like,
(27:18) m, so if you have a candidate who can
(27:20) talk to comedians, that's totally fine.
(27:24) But a lot of them can't, right? A lot of
(27:25) them can't. And the reality is that
(27:27) actually one of the things that the DSA
(27:29) has been so effective in is connecting
(27:30) with political creators, right? Abdul
(27:33) Elsed was going on like Mason's stream
(27:35) and Mason has like I don't know like two
(27:37) maybe 200 viewers like he's just some
(27:39) random Jubilee debater right they were
(27:41) really effective actually at plugging in
(27:42) very closely with their political new
(27:44) media allies in a way that I actually
(27:46) find that like more liberal coded uh
(27:48) institutionalists or not right like
(27:50) imagine trying to get any elected on
(27:52) Destiny stream for example or Hutch's
(27:54) stream or Wick stream like nightmare
(27:55) fuel it's not going to happen it's very
(27:58) not going to h it's very hard to happen
(28:00) >> doesn't that that come though with some
(28:02) of the the I guess u negative um
(28:06) negative impacts that we're seeing when
(28:08) it comes to some of the I I guess just
(28:10) the brutality of a lot of the
(28:12) infighting, the harassment that many
(28:14) people are receiving online when they
(28:16) speak or or they disagree on certain
(28:19) topics. And again, Kyon, you you wrote
(28:21) about that a little bit. So, I'm just
(28:22) wondering how these things interact, but
(28:24) uh you can respond to her question. I'm
(28:26) just
(28:26) >> right. I guess I guess the there's a
(28:28) different question in how do you
(28:29) maximize for you know being an internet
(28:32) celebrity and star versus where are the
(28:34) conversion points that you actually
(28:37) reach an undecided voter a persuadable
(28:39) voter and not to say that those people
(28:43) you named wouldn't be able to do that
(28:44) that going on Destiny stream wouldn't
(28:46) reach people and maybe excite but I I
(28:48) think there's a distinction between
(28:49) trying to reach an audience versus
(28:52) identifying you know somebody that's
(28:54) very hot in internet culture. I think
(28:56) the other point being though going when
(28:58) you go on these shows, it's it's not
(29:00) necessarily about if you're going on a
(29:02) comedy show, can you be funny? Can you
(29:04) keep up with the banter? I think a lot
(29:06) of these candidates make the mistake of
(29:07) they know they should be in more places
(29:10) and they go on these places and I think
(29:12) Newsome's a good example and they start
(29:14) to try to say whatever they think that
(29:16) host or that audience wants to hear
(29:18) because they think, well, I'm here. I'm
(29:20) trying to win over this audience. I
(29:22) think the people that do it best are
(29:25) confident in how they come across. They
(29:26) do have to have a bigger personality.
(29:28) It's not for everyone to do. And maybe
(29:30) it's a skill that should be more valued
(29:32) in the modern political environment, but
(29:35) >> yeah.
(29:36) >> How you win over those folks, I think,
(29:37) is by being authentic. Like some of the
(29:39) best moments were not, you know, suckupy
(29:42) interviews where they got along great,
(29:43) but um Ro Connor for example, who I have
(29:46) my gripes with, but who went on Theo
(29:48) Von's podcast, right? And talked about
(29:50) AI and talked about what it would mean
(29:52) to have a bill in states that required
(29:55) truck drivers and automated vehicles and
(29:58) things like that, right? that really
(29:59) broke through because it wasn't sort of
(30:01) just regurgitating talking points or
(30:04) trying to, you know, feed whatever the
(30:06) audience tends to like on this show and
(30:08) then say something different on the next
(30:10) show. Newsome's been doing that. Other
(30:11) candidates have been doing that. And I
(30:13) think when you're in the internet space,
(30:15) right, it's pretty easy to go pull that,
(30:17) oh well, you said this on a show and on
(30:19) B show you said something a little
(30:20) different to please that audience and C
(30:22) you said something different here. That
(30:23) comes across very inauthentic. I think
(30:26) the biggest thing though, right, is you
(30:28) You don't want to tie yourself to
(30:30) somebody that is toxic. Like I think
(30:32) we've seen, you know, I know Hassan
(30:34) [ __ ] has a lot of fans, but here's the
(30:36) proof that it didn't make sense for his
(30:38) campaign, right, Abdul Alai's campaign
(30:41) to sink so closely with him is that, you
(30:43) know, whether it's Medi Hassan and folks
(30:45) who I respect debating and defending
(30:47) him, at the end of the day, Els's
(30:49) campaign called up Hassan [ __ ] it's
(30:51) reported, and said, "Please stop. You
(30:53) are costing us votes." And I think it's
(30:56) a delicate balance because again, you
(30:58) know, you if the goal is to be a famous
(31:00) podcaster or, you know, internet
(31:02) personality, that's a different set of
(31:04) choices that you're going to make than
(31:05) trying to balance, you know, having a
(31:07) good digital presence and profile,
(31:09) meeting voters where they are, but also
(31:11) running a campaign the the way you need
(31:13) to to win.
(31:14) >> Uh, I don't want to like crowd out
(31:16) Stephen because I haven't gotten a I
(31:17) have lots of thoughts, but I want to
(31:18) make sure Stephen gets a chance in.
(31:20) >> Go ahead.
(31:21) >> Do you want to respond to him or
(31:23) >> Sure. Yeah. I just want to crowd you
(31:25) out. Yes, I'll make it super fast just
(31:26) so that we can get Stephen in here too.
(31:28) Um, so authenticity is uh on streaming
(31:32) world, authenticity is it's kind of like
(31:34) dating. Look, if you're a naturally
(31:36) charismatic guy whose authentic self is
(31:38) very likable on the camera, you should
(31:39) be your authentic self. But anyone who
(31:41) like knows Twitch royalty, for example,
(31:43) can tell you they're authentic, but
(31:45) they're not at all. Right? It's a
(31:46) manufactured authenticity. The what
(31:48) actually matters to be successful in
(31:50) different in new media is to code switch
(31:53) into internet culture, right? You need
(31:55) to understand internet culture to
(31:57) communicate. It's a code switch. It's as
(31:59) simple as that. If you sound like you're
(32:00) an institutionalist, they're going to
(32:01) hate you because you sound like an
(32:02) institutionalist. Whereas, if you sound
(32:04) authentic, and by authentic, it mostly
(32:06) means kind of uh dumb and a little bit
(32:08) populisty and like kind of like you can
(32:10) get a beer with them. That's like
(32:12) usually sufficient. And I do think that
(32:14) that can be trained to some extent. And
(32:15) I think some people will be more
(32:16) naturally gifted at that. But like
(32:18) people don't want authenticity. Nobody
(32:20) ever wants real authenticity, right?
(32:21) This is why everyone loves like thinking
(32:23) about like helping people with
(32:24) addictions or mental illness issues
(32:27) until you actually deal with it and you
(32:28) realize that it's messy and ugly and
(32:29) people are imperfect. What they want is
(32:31) a crystallin version of authenticity
(32:34) that doesn't feel establishment. That's
(32:35) what people want in new media by and
(32:37) large. Um and I think that that's just
(32:39) trainable. Like I think that's just a
(32:40) skill set.
(32:42) >> Go ahead.
(32:43) >> If you want to respond to that, go
(32:44) ahead. Otherwise, Stephen had a few
(32:46) things. Go ahead.
(32:47) I don't want to take up all the time. I
(32:49) think if it was, you'd see a bunch of
(32:51) other people be a lot better at it.
(32:54) >> Okay. So, so this is the trap I've been
(32:57) bargaining for um for quite a while now.
(32:59) One thing that I think Democrats don't
(33:00) realize um and I think a lot of this
(33:02) conversation is downstream from this is
(33:03) that is how unbelievably inorganic the
(33:07) Republican media machine is. I think
(33:09) that a lot of people get hung up on
(33:11) trying to figure out like, do we need to
(33:12) have populist rhetoric or is Donald
(33:14) Trump somebody who comes across as
(33:15) authentic or are there certain policies
(33:17) we need to talk about or do we need to
(33:18) be funny or blah blah blah when the
(33:20) reality is is what the Republicans are
(33:21) really good at is every single part of
(33:23) their political system is designed to
(33:25) reinforce every single other part of
(33:27) their political system. So when Donald
(33:29) Trump says a thing, you better believe
(33:30) that every Republican podcaster is going
(33:32) to say the exact same thing. You better
(33:34) believe that every single social media
(33:35) thing is going to say the thing. um when
(33:37) I you know talking to anybody behind the
(33:39) scenes uh talking to anybody that worked
(33:41) in media or on you know uh some of these
(33:43) campaigns like I've been able to ask
(33:45) this question every time and I always
(33:46) get the same response like if I ask
(33:47) somebody where do I go to look at for
(33:49) what the Republicans believe the answer
(33:51) is literally every single Republican all
(33:52) of them will be saying the exact same
(33:54) thing no matter if I'm looking at Fox
(33:55) News or if I'm looking at a podcaster or
(33:56) if I'm looking at um you know Johnson
(33:59) like anyone anybody they're all saying
(34:01) they're all on message all the time
(34:02) every part of it in the media the
(34:03) political world the podcast world when
(34:05) it comes to the Democrats There's no
(34:07) central place. We do have one and it's
(34:09) only when we're in office in the
(34:10) presidency because then we kind of like
(34:12) are around the president. But outside of
(34:13) that, we don't have a heritage
(34:14) foundation or a Federalist Society or
(34:17) some podcasters like Rush Limbaugh,
(34:18) people carrying the party line through
(34:20) because the radical people in the party
(34:22) that do all of our media tend to hate
(34:24) the Democratic party because they're
(34:24) younger. They're just not as focused on
(34:26) political power, they're focused more on
(34:27) like social media presence. Whereas on
(34:29) the Republican side, the people that are
(34:30) focused on social media presence are
(34:31) focused on political power. Um, so as a
(34:34) result of this, you wind up in this
(34:36) world where sometimes Democrats will go
(34:38) on to shows, they'll try things, they'll
(34:39) do things or whatever. But the reality
(34:41) is the reason why it works when
(34:42) progressives, I shouldn't say
(34:44) progressive, when Marxist do it or when
(34:45) MAGA does it is because all of them are
(34:47) constantly hyping each other up all the
(34:49) time, no matter what. Even when they
(34:51) give a bad performance, I always use the
(34:53) example of like a backing band. If
(34:54) you've got a good backing band, you're
(34:55) always going to sound good when you
(34:56) play. If you've got a shitty backing
(34:57) band, you're always going to sound like
(34:57) [ __ ] when you play. Um, if you watched
(34:59) the Ken Martin Pod Save America
(35:01) interview, that was a hit piece
(35:02) interview. It was I've done a lot of
(35:03) debates. I've done a lot of interviews.
(35:04) I know what hit interview looks like.
(35:05) When you're doing specific quotes and
(35:06) when the guy gives you a meaningful
(35:07) answer and you instantly move on to the
(35:09) next thing, that's a this is a hit piece
(35:10) interview. There was no world where he
(35:11) could go into that interview and come
(35:12) out looking good. Even though I thought
(35:14) he gave on paper good responses to some
(35:16) of the things that um Fab was Fab was
(35:18) interviewing him um some of the
(35:19) questions that he had for him, but the
(35:20) reality was the way that interview was
(35:22) designed, he will never ever ever ever
(35:23) come out looking good in that interview.
(35:25) And you've seen this happen time and
(35:26) time again where Democrats are just not
(35:27) aware that they're stepping into that
(35:29) environment and that theory of political
(35:31) power is working where all of these
(35:33) far-left people, these Marxist
(35:34) socialists are all going to be
(35:35) reinforcing themselves and constantly
(35:37) attacking the Democrats, the liberals
(35:39) who are not on their team. Um Mallerie
(35:42) Mcmorro did this on that is it Matt
(35:43) Baronstein show. The difference between
(35:45) her interview where they brought on Emma
(35:48) Vigiland to do a twoon-one solve Israel
(35:50) Palestine debate and then when you get
(35:52) um um after that they had Alied on and I
(35:55) don't think they ask him about Israel
(35:56) Palestine. They never ask hard questions
(35:57) to their own people. Um but they're
(35:58) constantly trying to destroy Crystal
(36:00) Ball did this um with Slotkin. Um she
(36:04) tried to do this with um I think it was
(36:05) Adam Smith. Adam Smith, right? Um
(36:08) politician.
(36:09) >> I believe I believe it was Adam Smith.
(36:10) >> Yeah. Why are there staffers
(36:11) recommending they go on these shows at
(36:13) all? And if they are going on the shows,
(36:15) they have a print out of like, "Hey, by
(36:16) the way, they hate you, so be prepped
(36:18) for a hostile interview."
(36:20) >> Sure. Yeah. But but the issue is that on
(36:22) the MAGA side, there are no hostile
(36:23) interviews. They just don't go on those
(36:25) shows. Um, one of the big issues that
(36:27) we're looking at right now is people are
(36:28) trying to put together what's happening
(36:29) in the political environment. The thing
(36:30) that we're running into right now is
(36:32) that the socialist types have figured
(36:34) out, they understand how MAGA does media
(36:36) and now they've copied the way that MAGA
(36:38) does media. But MAGA can do media the
(36:41) way that they can because there are
(36:42) legitimately half the country are
(36:43) Republicans. So you can fabricate a
(36:45) reality and have your own circle echo
(36:47) chamber when you've got that many people
(36:48) beneath you. But the socialists do not
(36:51) have anywhere near that level. It's like
(36:52) 1 or 2% of the country and whatever 5%
(36:55) of the party maybe that are like
(36:57) actually socialist Marxist. So when you
(36:58) see things like this attacking Mum Dani
(37:00) or uh attacking people that you don't
(37:02) consider pure enough for your side,
(37:03) they're exercising their theory of how
(37:06) political power should work and their
(37:07) media and everything should work like
(37:08) MAGA does, but they don't have the
(37:10) numbers to to actually support it. And
(37:12) that's why when they're exercising it,
(37:13) it's not working out quite as well as
(37:14) they'd want it to. The only reason
(37:15) they've had the success that they have
(37:16) had so far is because they're doing the
(37:18) national level attention on individual
(37:20) races. So they only have to win a few.
(37:23) Like look at them say how many times
(37:24) have you seen people medi husan the waji
(37:26) guy the Keith Edwards say things like
(37:28) this has been a historic year for the
(37:30) DSA for socialist it's like excuse me
(37:32) what the how many [ __ ] seats do you
(37:33) guys win like a few like five or six you
(37:34) guys are talking about like if I was an
(37:36) alien looking at my political system
(37:38) down here I would assume that I guess
(37:39) like socialists run half the democratic
(37:41) party but they don't they have like
(37:42) maybe a handful of seats um yeah but I
(37:44) think that I think to summarize I think
(37:46) a lot of the conversation about like
(37:47) what should we do how do we message how
(37:49) do we do whatever look at the
(37:50) Republicans right you know if I were to
(37:52) think things about these people. Do
(37:53) these people like, you know, weird,
(37:55) buggeyed, Indian looking people? No. But
(37:57) look at Cash Patel. They've all
(37:58) surrounded him. What about people who
(38:00) can't barely speak? They make fun of
(38:01) these people all the time. They like RFK
(38:03) Jr. Um, you know, you've got And then on
(38:05) the left, you've got, you know, they
(38:06) hate billionaires, right? No, they love
(38:08) Tom Styer down in California when he was
(38:10) on their team. Well, they're really big
(38:11) about like Nazis and stuff, right? Nope.
(38:13) They were totally fine with Graham
(38:14) Platner. It's because both sides are
(38:15) exercising their political power in the
(38:17) way in the exact same way. The far left
(38:19) just doesn't have the numbers to do it.
(38:20) And then they're trying to take over the
(38:21) Democratic party at the same time, which
(38:22) is a whole other set of problems. But
(38:23) yeah, that's why
(38:24) >> how do how do how do the establishment,
(38:26) I guess the more liberal, the more
(38:27) center left people respond to that. And
(38:29) I'm I'm curious your thoughts on this,
(38:30) Kyan. Go ahead.
(38:32) >> Well, I mean, Destiny's 100% right, by
(38:34) the way. Interesting stat. If you look
(38:35) at the primary elections for the
(38:38) Democrats in flippable seats, the
(38:40) majority, the vast majority of nominees
(38:43) who proceeded to the general election
(38:46) were moderate candidates. Because again,
(38:48) most voters understand what it takes to
(38:50) win a general election and it's not to
(38:52) pick somebody that's super alienating. I
(38:54) do think part of it is to, you know,
(38:57) there is some logic to the idea that
(39:00) people who are more moderate, if you
(39:02) want to use that word, and it's so
(39:03) loaded these days, are also less likely
(39:06) to make a social media account and start
(39:09) sharing their every thought and opinion
(39:10) because that's less thought of as a
(39:12) moderate action, right? reflect
(39:14) professionalism and a lot of these
(39:16) things that are sort of I think to a
(39:19) fault ingrained in people that are
(39:21) focused on consensus building and you
(39:24) know working together to get something
(39:26) done are not really going to default to
(39:29) you know screaming about extreme things
(39:31) and hitting the five notes that go viral
(39:34) every day all day long like that is
(39:36) inconsistent on some level
(39:37) >> doesn't doesn't that make a kind of
(39:39) asymmetry I I think what you just said
(39:41) there is very important I I want kind of
(39:44) like uh really hone in on it, right? The
(39:46) the people who are more moderate, who
(39:48) are trying to build bridges, who are
(39:50) trying to mend fences, who are trying to
(39:52) build a large coalition, they're not
(39:55) >> they they stay silent a lot of times
(39:57) because they don't want to offend
(39:58) anyone. They don't want to drive off the
(40:01) other side or or make the other side mad
(40:03) at them, right? Like between the center
(40:05) left and kind of the uh more far-left uh
(40:08) I guess factions within the Democratic
(40:10) party or Democratic coalition right now.
(40:12) Whereas people who are on the far left a
(40:15) lot or are on what my side of the aisle,
(40:18) which is more the kind of like liberal
(40:20) side of the aisle, we are always as loud
(40:23) as we can be. And so you have people who
(40:26) are screaming and getting a lot of the
(40:29) attention, but the coalition buildings
(40:31) just they're getting bullied out of the
(40:33) room, right? They're just the oxygen in
(40:36) the the conversation just they don't
(40:38) have any. Well, I I do think, you know,
(40:40) and it's sort of a cheap example, but
(40:42) it's, you know, recent, of the lesbian
(40:44) bar in Massachusetts with the masking
(40:45) policy that's sort of been held up as,
(40:47) you know, the extremes of wokeness. And
(40:49) I think a lot of the critiques are, you
(40:52) know, disingenuous, but I think what is
(40:54) true, and I I spent 10 years in in
(40:56) higher education. I did my MBA, my
(40:59) masters of public policy, my law degree.
(41:01) And I think in all of these spaces, what
(41:03) you do notice is there's absolutely the
(41:06) majority of people that want to move the
(41:08) ball forward to help people to achieve
(41:09) meaningful progress. But there is a very
(41:12) loud contingent that understands that by
(41:15) leaning into some of these movements,
(41:16) they can control people and they can
(41:19) center themselves. And when you add the
(41:21) internet to that, it really gets bigger.
(41:23) And then when people see that there's a
(41:25) lot of validity to some of the issues
(41:27) that are flagged, they don't know where
(41:30) to draw the line. Especially if they're,
(41:31) you know, a straight white guy in the
(41:33) room, they feel, okay, maybe I should
(41:35) just be quiet because I don't know. I
(41:38) think part of the hard work of
(41:40) policymaking is being thoughtful about
(41:42) the issues and figuring out what your
(41:45) rate limiting principle is, figuring out
(41:47) where you draw the line, figuring out
(41:49) how you can achieve progress without
(41:51) sort of handing over the keys to
(41:53) whoever's going to scream the loudest. I
(41:55) think that's been the flaw of the
(41:57) Democratic party in recent years is that
(42:00) they've been scared to, you know, not
(42:03) get cancelled, but something similar,
(42:05) whatever you want to call it, right? And
(42:07) I think part of taking that back is
(42:09) yeah, putting yourself out there,
(42:10) speaking out. You know, one of the
(42:12) things that's ironic to me about the
(42:14) current crop of Democratic influencers,
(42:16) and you know, everyone to each their
(42:19) own, but I don't think you pick the top
(42:21) 10 voices on the left and say, "These
(42:23) people seem cool. These people drive
(42:25) culture. These people are who younger
(42:27) people want to be like." And you know, I
(42:30) mean, that that's important to me, I
(42:32) think, because when when you talk about,
(42:34) you know, a clvicular or whatever, who
(42:35) also I think objectively is a loser, but
(42:38) certainly to some folks, they look at
(42:40) him, he's talking about girls, he's
(42:42) talking about like whatever, going to
(42:43) parties, going to clubs, and to some
(42:46) audience that's interesting. There isn't
(42:48) that on the left because you have a lot
(42:50) of talking heads and voices who
(42:52) basically are appealing to an audience
(42:54) of 50 plus year olds who wish that's
(42:56) what Gen Z thought who are excited to
(42:58) finally see Democrats on the internet
(43:00) saying these things and going viral for
(43:02) it but they don't represent the politics
(43:04) of their generation and then it sees
(43:07) this wide opening to the most cynical
(43:09) people to fill that void. Yeah, I think
(43:13) uh Kyon's really so the most popular Gen
(43:15) Zed liberal creators that you guys know,
(43:17) I won't name any names, most of them
(43:18) have an audience that's older than 45.
(43:20) Most of their audience is predominantly
(43:21) over 45. Um but that is just a reality.
(43:24) In fact, I'm often asked behind the
(43:26) scenes how to break into younger thing.
(43:27) And I think Taiwan is actually touching
(43:28) on a thing that I actually think
(43:30) liberals are the most stupid about,
(43:32) frankly, is we really hate that
(43:34) aesthetic matters, right? And by
(43:35) aesthetic, I don't just mean how you
(43:37) look and what you wear. It's it's a
(43:38) whole package, right? Mom Donnie is a
(43:40) package. He's the like puppy dog eyes,
(43:42) always smiling. He's in a suit, but he's
(43:44) always in a bit of a casual suit. He's
(43:46) kind of like a guy that you can hang out
(43:48) with. He might like have babysitter
(43:49) kids. Like he's just a sweet little guy,
(43:51) right? Who also happens to be like very
(43:53) far left that people really like. Like
(43:55) he had an aesthetic that you could sell
(43:57) on new media. And it's maybe it's bad. I
(44:00) don't think it's bad. I actually think
(44:01) it's human. I think your lobe is one of
(44:03) the largest parts of your brain. So I
(44:04) think visuals matter, right? I think one
(44:06) of the worst things that happens with
(44:07) liberals, it's not the only thing.
(44:08) There's a multitude of things, but I
(44:10) think something kind that's touching on
(44:11) that I never ever ever hear liberals
(44:13) talk about and when I do talk about it,
(44:14) frankly, I feel like I get relegated to
(44:16) silly woman ideas, is liberals aren't
(44:18) cool. They don't look cool. They don't
(44:20) dress cool. They don't do cool things.
(44:21) Most liberals that I talk to that are
(44:23) like actively political, if I go, "What
(44:24) are your hobbies?" They're like, "Um, I
(44:27) do politics as my hobby." And I'm like,
(44:29) "That's not a hobby. Like, that's also
(44:30) your job, right?" And so I think that we
(44:32) are hugely losing on culture because I
(44:35) think liberals are very untapped. Like
(44:37) the the east coast elite sentiment is
(44:39) what people think liberals are. It's why
(44:40) people don't like them. And
(44:41) unfortunately if you are an east coast
(44:42) elite, power to you, you know, I love
(44:45) you. But unfortunately, a lot of people
(44:47) don't and it's definitely not driving
(44:48) culture. Culture never emerges out of
(44:51) like East Coast elite keeping it safe,
(44:53) right? It typically emerges in like
(44:55) alternative spaces that become like
(44:56) popularized over time that is
(44:58) predominantly going to be occupied by
(44:59) radical spaces. is like we've just
(45:01) basically given over all alternative
(45:03) like um fashion and music and everything
(45:06) to like the far left. Like it's just
(45:08) it's been given over to them because we
(45:09) just the way the Republicans don't
(45:11) invest in university, liberals don't
(45:12) invest in in the arts to some degree as
(45:14) well. We're all STEM politics people.
(45:20) >> Okay, I'm hitting my point again. I I
(45:22) just say I super disagree on everything,
(45:23) but that's okay. That's why we're here.
(45:25) So again, I feel like we do a lot of
(45:26) this analysis of what's going on down
(45:28) the line, but I feel like it's just not
(45:30) um it just it it lacks explanatory power
(45:33) to see what's actually going on. So one
(45:35) thing that I'll say is um and I bring
(45:37) this a lot when we look at Mumani,
(45:38) right? People want to say, "Well, Mani
(45:40) is really good. He's got like a good
(45:42) aesthetic. He was messaging well and
(45:43) everything." And I agree that he did,
(45:46) but I think going back to kind of how I
(45:48) envision how political power is
(45:49) exercised right now in media
(45:50) environments, this is what I think is
(45:52) more likely happening. Okay? If I were
(45:53) to ask you, you know, like who is Mani
(45:55) or what is Mam Dani? He had attacks
(45:57) against him during the election, you
(46:00) know, when Republicans decided they were
(46:01) going to fearonger about Islam again,
(46:02) which I don't know where that came from,
(46:03) but they decided that was going to be
(46:04) the hot button topic for a while. But
(46:05) after that, he's the mayor of New York
(46:07) City. That's it. Republicans aren't
(46:08) trying to define him. The Democratic
(46:10) party doesn't attack him. So Mandani is
(46:12) free to advertise on whatever he wants.
(46:14) And I think that as a result of that, he
(46:15) gets to set the story about what he
(46:17) does. And every single thing that he
(46:19) says about himself is obviously going to
(46:20) be positive. you're not going to falsely
(46:22) or negatively advertise about yourself.
(46:23) So, he's allowed to say things like,
(46:24) "Look, I filled a bunch of potholes, and
(46:26) that's cool." Now, if he was doing that
(46:28) in a competitive area where there are
(46:29) Republicans, would he get away with
(46:31) saying, "I filled potholes," while
(46:33) Republicans are saying, "Well, you know,
(46:34) illegal immigrants are filling native
(46:36) citizens with bullets, are you okay with
(46:38) running around and and lowering the cost
(46:40) of bus tickets when you're also giving
(46:41) free hotels to illegal immigrants?"
(46:43) Like, I don't know if he would be able
(46:44) to message the same way, but he is in a
(46:45) totally pressureless environment. And
(46:47) then I flip that on to people saying
(46:49) Democrats are afraid to go out. They're
(46:50) afraid to take risks. They're afraid to
(46:52) do whatever this Republicans are afraid
(46:54) to go out and take risks. They don't
(46:56) take risks. Every single interview they
(46:58) give is a high five. Super friendly.
(47:01) Everybody's going to agree on all the
(47:02) major point. When was the last
(47:03) contentious interview that Donald Trump
(47:05) gave that it does not happen. They
(47:07) always have as a way of practicing their
(47:09) media political power. They always are
(47:10) in friendly environments. And then the
(47:11) far-left people do the exact same.
(47:13) They're only in friendly media
(47:14) environments except when they can trick
(47:15) a liberal into showing up. and then
(47:17) fighting there. And then much the same
(47:18) on that, going with that whole as long
(47:20) as you can tell people what reality is,
(47:22) they'll believe it. Especially now
(47:23) because you can get a 24/7 screen in
(47:24) front of them. When we talk about like
(47:25) liberals aren't cool, I I I just I think
(47:28) the ultimate um forfeit of that was the
(47:32) the video of Donald Trump, you know,
(47:34) having to turn away from the Kid Rock
(47:36) Show on TV to watch the normal halftime
(47:38) show. Like conservatives have no culture
(47:40) in the United States right now. I'm
(47:41) sorry. They really don't. They've
(47:42) completely and totally lost that place.
(47:43) All culture comes from liberal spaces.
(47:45) All conservatives know it. All liberals
(47:47) know it. And you know, but when you have
(47:50) the ability to control the media so
(47:51) much, like any like think about the
(47:54) things that people made fun of Kla
(47:56) Harris for that she did a lot of um word
(47:58) salad or you know, did you fall out of a
(48:00) coconut tree? First of all, she doesn't
(48:01) word salad. She's a billion times more
(48:03) articulate than Donald Trump. And the
(48:04) fallout of a coconut tree, the thing it
(48:05) made perfect sense if you listen to what
(48:06) it you know what she said. Meanwhile,
(48:08) Donald Trump will [ __ ] something up. And
(48:11) people on the Conservative party are
(48:12) writing like new chapters of English
(48:15) grammar to try to explain it. We, you
(48:17) know, we have theoretical maths of
(48:18) explaining how you actually can have a
(48:20) 6,000% reduction in price on something.
(48:22) And then they'll go out and they'll
(48:22) defend it because Donald Trump misspoke
(48:24) it. You'll have Megan Kelly talking
(48:26) about, you know, is having sex with
(48:27) 14-year-olds really that bad if Donald
(48:29) Trump or whatever. Like, they're they
(48:30) will stand their people no matter what.
(48:32) So when Republicans are fighting,
(48:33) they're on friendly platforms and
(48:34) they're fighting against what they
(48:35) perceive as the propagandized
(48:37) characterized version caricaturized
(48:39) versions of the left and that's all they
(48:40) have to do. Meanwhile,
(48:43) if I'm a Democrat, anything I go on, the
(48:45) host is going to be fighting with me cuz
(48:47) that's what we do as Democrats. The far
(48:48) left is going to be trying to [ __ ]
(48:49) eviscerate me. And then the people on
(48:51) the far right are not only going to be
(48:52) mischaracterizing and attacking me for
(48:53) every single thing I say, they're also
(48:55) going to be amplifying everybody on the
(48:56) far left to make me seem even crazier.
(48:57) So, if I'm Ken Martin or Kla Harris or
(48:59) Hillary Clinton or whatever and I go on
(49:00) a podcast, I've got to fight with the
(49:01) host and I've got to answer for every
(49:03) bad thing anybody in the past has done
(49:04) as a Democrat. People like uh Hassan on
(49:07) the far left are going to be calling me
(49:08) a genocidal, you know, murderer. And
(49:09) then people on the right are going to
(49:10) go, "Look at this guy who agrees with
(49:12) Hassan [ __ ] on everything." I even
(49:14) though you don't, right? I think I just
(49:16) saw John Oaf get attacked yesterday in
(49:18) his debate uh where the claim was that
(49:20) Osaf and Hassan Per. No, they're not.
(49:22) But Republicans in the far left are
(49:24) setting the media like this. Of course,
(49:25) Democrats are going to be riskaverse
(49:27) because every platform they go on,
(49:29) they're getting stabbed on every side.
(49:31) You can never succeed in that
(49:32) environment in my opinion. That's my
(49:34) >> I would I would basically say to you
(49:35) that the double standard is true and
(49:37) that there is reasons for why Democrats
(49:39) are riskaverse and it doesn't change the
(49:41) fact that Democrats are still despite
(49:43) that not inspiring everyone and they are
(49:45) too riskaverse. Right? The reality is
(49:47) that like for example to even get a
(49:49) Democrat to go on Hutch's stream is damn
(49:52) near impossible. It is so [ __ ] hard
(49:55) to get them to agree to it. And I
(49:56) understand that part of why is because
(49:58) they're super riskaverse. But part of it
(49:59) is also lack of education, right? Like
(50:01) for example, if liberals would just get
(50:03) better at working together as you kind
(50:04) of identified and actually like bolster
(50:06) each other, we could have somebody have
(50:09) like a slightly not great answer on
(50:11) Hutch's stream and be like whatever. It
(50:13) has like a two-day cycle. Who gives a
(50:14) [ __ ] Move on. Right. But we don't. But
(50:15) it doesn't because people on the far
(50:16) left, Mike from PA and Hassan were
(50:18) attacking I think it was uh was it MC
(50:20) Mororrow that went on Hutch's stream
(50:22) were attacking her because of that
(50:23) association.
(50:24) >> I agree. I agree. And then who was
(50:25) bolstering up people on Hutch's side for
(50:27) going on there? Like almost no one. Like
(50:29) very few of us actually work together
(50:31) and support one another, right? That's a
(50:32) huge issue amongst liberals is that
(50:35) you're right, liberals love to like
(50:36) critique. It's like our best thing.
(50:38) We're the best at it better than anybody
(50:40) else. And so we sit around and we
(50:41) critique each other. And liberals are
(50:44) dominantly careerists, right? They're
(50:46) oftentimes most oriented with making
(50:48) sure that their career is successful.
(50:49) And unfortunately, a careerist is not a
(50:51) principalist, whereas a lot of people on
(50:53) the far left or the Republican
(50:55) generally, as you said, unify because
(50:57) they're unified by some principal idea
(50:59) of what they're fighting for. Right. So,
(51:00) it creates more
(51:02) >> that that dynamic is changing a little
(51:04) bit. We have uh I I'll just plug it real
(51:06) quick. uh the Liberal Action Network
(51:09) which were helping other liberal
(51:11) creators to kind of get their voice and
(51:12) support them. Shannon Watts, that
(51:14) interview came to pass because Shannon
(51:16) Watts is a member of the Liberal Action
(51:17) Network and was able to get with me and
(51:19) like we were able to set this up and and
(51:21) kind of make these connections here. I
(51:23) guess two questions though. Um
(51:25) >> Take Back America is
(51:26) >> we've done four [ __ ] events.
(51:27) >> Yeah, take Back America membership. I'm
(51:30) with that too, right?
(51:31) >> True. I barely get shouted out. I often
(51:33) get [ __ ] on for running it anyways. It
(51:35) is [ __ ] impossible. We get almost no
(51:37) small donations. It is [ __ ]
(51:38) impossible. Like, yeah, you run liberal.
(51:41) Like, it is goddamn hard to run it as
(51:44) you probably know already with Liberal
(51:45) Action Network, right? Like, we have
(51:46) these things like DNC, DSA, pick TBA. It
(51:50) It's working. We're getting
(51:51) institutional interests, but it's like
(51:54) [ __ ] dragging nails. It is goddamn
(51:56) hard because liberals don't want to like
(51:58) support one another, don't want to get
(51:59) behind each other. And also also look at
(52:01) what happened with Chorus, which was
(52:03) another group that was attempted to be
(52:06) made to kind of um correct the the
(52:09) asymmetry between the right and the left
(52:11) when it comes to messaging. Look what
(52:13) happened with that. It was attacked
(52:15) viciously by many on the far left saying
(52:17) that they were supporting genocide, all
(52:19) these things. It's just crazy. But um uh
(52:21) I feel like I'm crowding you out, Kyon,
(52:23) so I want to get let you
(52:24) >> Well, I I do I I appreciate what Destiny
(52:27) said about, you know, it's absolutely
(52:29) true that I think pretty much every
(52:31) relevant cultural creator is pretty much
(52:34) on the liberal spectrum. And that's even
(52:36) true. You know, Trump couldn't get
(52:37) anyone other than that child to perform
(52:39) at his first inauguration. But um I
(52:42) think there's a there's a key difference
(52:44) between generally having the mainstream
(52:47) culture align with you and being edgy
(52:50) and interesting and driving culture and
(52:53) conversation forward, which is a lot of
(52:55) what I think Republicans are able to do
(52:59) with some of the edgy things they say.
(53:01) And also the left is the far left is
(53:03) able to do because it it's more
(53:05) interesting when you are the default
(53:07) situation. That is less interesting
(53:09) period. And I think that is a
(53:11) distinction that I want to make because
(53:13) absolutely I agree with you on that. But
(53:14) I think also it's I don't know that it's
(53:16) fair to say that the right does not take
(53:18) big swings and big risks because and
(53:20) some of them are stupid by the way. But
(53:22) to your to your other point, they all
(53:23) fall in line. Like Trump going to that
(53:25) midterms RNC and announcing a $5,000
(53:29) check to anyone that votes for him
(53:31) basically was a a risk in if you want to
(53:35) technically break it down. Like that's a
(53:37) risky thing to do. It's a chaotic thing
(53:39) to do. It's a crazy thing to do. But of
(53:41) course, the consequence is nothing
(53:43) because of the media environment that
(53:45) he's able to do that in and the
(53:47) political environment he's able to do
(53:49) that in. So, I don't know that it's
(53:50) they're not taking risks. I think it's
(53:53) part of part of being actually
(53:55) thoughtful and ideologically consistent,
(53:57) which data shows over and over again,
(53:59) liberals are more committed to
(54:01) ideological consistency is that yeah,
(54:03) when things are inconsistent, you don't
(54:05) just let it go and say, "Oh, well, this
(54:07) guy won the primary, so it's totally
(54:08) fine. He said XYZ thing I think is
(54:10) horrible." It bothers you. And so that
(54:14) is something that I think is part of the
(54:17) work that needs to be done to have at
(54:19) least a baseline of agreement and
(54:22) understanding between sort of the
(54:23) moderate wing of the party and the
(54:24) further left. But also, I think the
(54:27) question is,
(54:29) how do we just center candidates that
(54:32) are interesting, right? Like Mum Donnie,
(54:34) sure, like you can say that he's in a
(54:36) favorable environment, but I think
(54:37) undeniably he is a star. He is likable.
(54:40) He does communicate in a way that even
(54:42) if you disagree with him, you're willing
(54:43) to listen and have the conversation. By
(54:45) the way, I'd say AOC is the same. Bernie
(54:47) Sanders is absolutely the opposite of
(54:49) that, right? Where if you if you
(54:51) disagree with him, he's going to be
(54:53) incredibly unpleasant. he's default
(54:55) unpleasant. Anyways, that is not sort of
(54:57) a winning personality for this format
(54:59) and environment. But I think even
(55:00) looking at this week, it's hard to say
(55:02) that Mumani is, you know, above it all,
(55:05) he's getting protested, you know, two,
(55:07) three times in the week for a range of
(55:09) issues, both being hammered on the right
(55:12) and the left over his October 7th
(55:14) response, being criticized for ICE. Now,
(55:17) people that were saying he was playing 4
(55:19) D chess in sucking up to Donald Trump
(55:20) are saying, "Oh, well, he's selling out
(55:22) to Trump and he should be pushing back
(55:24) on ICE." So, I think it's not, you know,
(55:27) smooth sailing. But what I think is true
(55:29) is that up until this point, for the
(55:31) last year, he has absolutely been given
(55:34) a huge pass. And whether I support, you
(55:36) know, the police commissioner Jessica
(55:38) Tish or not, that was, for example, a
(55:41) major divide with the left on with Edund
(55:44) Mandani. They let it go until now. Same
(55:47) with a bunch of other promises that he
(55:48) made and broke. Same with him keeping,
(55:50) you know, special police task force that
(55:52) he said he disbanded. They just let it
(55:54) go. Whereas if a commla Harris said it,
(55:57) they would be all over her for it. So
(55:59) part of that is, I think, just building
(56:01) a critical mass of voices that is going
(56:03) to meet that type of hypocrisy and
(56:05) behavior with really aggressive push
(56:07) back. I I wonder what you think of that.
(56:10) >> I think um just two quick things. So,
(56:12) um, maybe I'll refine my point a bit
(56:14) when I say without risk, cuz tech,
(56:16) because you're right, there are things
(56:17) to take risk. What I mean is that you
(56:19) you would rather fight one 500 lb
(56:21) warrior opponent than like one 300lb
(56:24) opponent with a 100 pound guy behind you
(56:25) stabbing you at the back of the knife.
(56:26) You cannot win fighting on two fronts
(56:27) ever. It's just not possible. You fall
(56:28) apart so fast doing it. And so, when I
(56:30) say riskless, I I guess more
(56:32) specifically what I mean is there's no
(56:33) risk that they're going to have to be
(56:34) fighting two or three fronts. They're
(56:36) not going to have to be fighting the
(56:37) podcaster, their own party, and the
(56:38) opposition party at the same time.
(56:39) Whereas every time a Democrat is in any
(56:41) place, it's almost all three. If they've
(56:43) got a friendly interview, maybe it'll
(56:44) only be two. Um, but like some of the
(56:46) toughest interviews that Kamla gave, I
(56:47) remember the Kla Walls interview on CNN
(56:49) where they were at that table and it was
(56:50) like hard question follow-up question
(56:52) like challenges related to the past
(56:54) admin and Trump gets friendly interviews
(56:56) even on liberal media often times. You
(56:57) just lie outright and say stuff which is
(56:59) crazy. Um, when you talk about like even
(57:02) Mani has had problems now, I agree. But
(57:04) why? It's because the the far-left is
(57:07) breaking with him on some things and
(57:09) that's when he's finally starting to run
(57:10) into issues because now he has a has a
(57:12) coherent political faction that has an
(57:14) understanding of how to exercise
(57:15) political power in this harmonic, you
(57:17) know, resonating way that is kind of I
(57:19) wouldn't say a threat to his
(57:20) administration. I don't know how long
(57:21) they'll keep on this. If they decide to
(57:22) keep on it for a long time, it's going
(57:23) to be really annoying. But that's the
(57:24) thing that's finally brought some
(57:25) pressure to to bear on him. And so
(57:27) without that like structure set up to
(57:30) get the kind of support going, it's just
(57:32) never going to be the case. I think that
(57:34) you can perform well in those
(57:35) environments. Like when people
(57:36) constantly say like the the left needs a
(57:38) Joe Rogan, like they they do, but it's
(57:40) not that the right like had a Joe Rogan.
(57:43) It's that the right media system created
(57:46) Joe Rogan. He watched stuff where
(57:48) Republicans are sitting at the top of
(57:49) this media funnel, was convinced and
(57:51) brainwashed of it, and then started to
(57:52) bring on more conservatives that were
(57:54) all on the same page for how to do the
(57:55) brainwashing. And then from that, you
(57:58) get the creation of all these podcast
(57:59) bros who are like, "Oh yeah, this is
(58:00) actually, you know, super base and super
(58:02) correct." and um the yeah just that it's
(58:05) so inorganic and it and it's so forced
(58:07) and it's so effective and so powerful
(58:09) and if liberals don't understand that
(58:10) that's at least happening. I don't know
(58:12) if they should do it themselves but they
(58:13) don't understand it's happening every
(58:14) single thing you try to analyze is going
(58:15) to be downstream from that. I mean we
(58:17) how many different stupid clips and
(58:19) videos and everything else of Joe
(58:20) Biden's um you know being I guess
(58:23) scenile and he's losing his mind and
(58:24) whatever else and and most liberals now
(58:25) will say this. Yeah, he definitely had
(58:26) huge cenility problems. McConnell is is
(58:29) being wheeled in as a dead puppet. I
(58:32) don't even know if there's life in this
(58:34) man's body anymore and nobody is really
(58:36) talking about it. Why? Because the
(58:37) Republicans aren't focusing on it. The
(58:39) far left doesn't care about it and
(58:40) because the liberals don't have that
(58:42) concentrated media ecosystem to make it
(58:44) a story every single day. Uh
(58:47) >> but why the question is why have
(58:49) liberals failed so much in no media?
(58:51) Right? In the same way that like we had
(58:52) >> because when because when Republicans
(58:53) created right-wing media, they created
(58:55) it as an alternative to the media and
(58:57) all of a sudden you had the media which
(58:59) is trying to be the media. That's why
(59:01) you get [ __ ] the New York Times and
(59:02) CNN publishing negative pieces on we
(59:05) just saw one on Elsa and we just saw one
(59:07) on the lady in Alaska and I was like why
(59:08) the [ __ ] are you guys publishing
(59:10) negative pieces on your candidates right
(59:11) now? But it's because they don't see it
(59:12) as their candidates. But on when the
(59:14) Republicans created their media, Fox
(59:16) News, they're like we're the right and
(59:17) CNN and the New York Times and
(59:18) Washington Post, they're the left. But
(59:20) WPO and New York Times and CN these guys
(59:22) don't view themselves as being
(59:22) politically ideologically driven. They
(59:24) do see themselves as being like trying
(59:27) to do the right thing. Kyla, you and me
(59:28) had a talk with a really really big
(59:30) media figure that every single person
(59:31) here would recognize and he said the
(59:32) same thing and my mind is getting blown.
(59:34) And I'm like, what do you mean? You just
(59:35) put it out there and you let people
(59:36) decide. Fox News doesn't do that. They
(59:37) absolutely know what they want you to
(59:39) think about every single thing that you
(59:40) walk away from.
(59:41) >> So you're you're tapping into something
(59:42) that I'm trying to talk about though.
(59:44) Like I think one of the issues that we
(59:45) have to recognize when we look at like
(59:46) Republicans versus liberals first of all
(59:48) and then liberals versus DSA is we have
(59:50) to recognize that like the win
(59:52) conditions for each of these groups
(59:53) isn't the same. It just can't be because
(59:54) they're not the same things. They don't
(59:56) have the same principles that they're
(59:57) championing behind. So they have to look
(59:58) different necessarily, right? So I agree
(60:01) that liberals have basically the most
(60:02) hostile territory that they are
(60:03) occupying and they are they are always
(60:06) playing on the hardest mode, right? They
(60:08) they genuinely are. The issue is that I
(60:11) think that they're like talented and
(60:12) policied enough that they can be
(60:13) successful. And so when criticisms come,
(60:16) when I say things like liberals aren't
(60:18) cool, I mean it. And I think it is a
(60:20) very strong criticism and I think it's a
(60:21) meaningful criticism. The issue is that
(60:23) I obviously
(60:24) >> Well, but like who are the cool
(60:25) conservatives?
(60:25) >> Well, no. No. Conservatives aren't cool.
(60:27) >> Donald Trump, you know how they make
(60:29) this cool. Stop. You're missing me.
(60:31) You're missing me. I'm not saying
(60:32) Republicans are cool because people
(60:33) don't vote for Republicans because
(60:34) they're cool. The left has always been
(60:36) more art and cultural. So, if you want
(60:38) to like bulcanize and pull people from
(60:40) maybe like the further left, like the
(60:42) 22-year-old socialist who doesn't even
(60:44) know what that means and is actually
(60:45) just a progressive liberal, right? Part
(60:47) of how you do that is through aesthetic
(60:48) and culture because the far-left right
(60:50) now is cool, right? If you want to talk
(60:52) about cool, it's people like I know you
(60:54) hate it. Hassan dresses well and is
(60:56) cooler. He's friends with porn stars and
(60:58) music artists and stuff like that. Like,
(61:00) that's what's cool. The far left is
(61:02) socially cool, particularly to the
(61:03) right. I agree. The Republicans,
(61:04) >> but that's not even none of that is even
(61:06) true. Hassan has no popularity off of
(61:08) Twitch, right? All of this forced
(61:10) through leftist media. It's I'm sorry,
(61:11) but it's absolutely true. Go look at his
(61:13) viewership numbers that he does on any
(61:14) show that's outside of Twitch where he
(61:16) where he's super protected. He can get
(61:18) friendly views and he can get favorable
(61:19) coverage on the leftist shows where they
(61:21) don't actually push him on anything. But
(61:22) outside of that,
(61:23) >> there are people he's a celebrity, but
(61:24) look at look at look at Michigan. Look
(61:26) at any favorability poll about Hassan
(61:28) Per. He's the least favorable thing.
(61:30) First of all, barely anybody even knows
(61:31) about it. But when they do, they most of
(61:32) them don't like him. He's not favorable
(61:33) or cool or seen that way anywhere. But
(61:35) you think, you guys think it just cuz
(61:36) you've seen it for so much by leftist
(61:38) media. It
(61:38) >> depends on which demographic. For
(61:39) example, there's like a surge of people
(61:41) on Hinge for example saying that like if
(61:43) you don't agree with Hassan [ __ ] like
(61:44) don't reach out to me. Like there is a
(61:46) growing number of people. And so I agree
(61:47) that the reality is that the internet is
(61:49) always louder than like the lurker and
(61:51) the lurker is actually much more
(61:53) moderate. But the issue is that the
(61:54) lurker moderate never wants to speak up.
(61:56) They are cowards and they have jobs and
(61:58) they never will. They never [ __ ]
(62:00) will. And so if liberals want to be
(62:02) successful, we do have to succeed in new
(62:04) media. And we are fighting on two fronts
(62:06) and the issue is we have to figure out a
(62:08) strategy to win anyways.
(62:11) >> I agree but it will never happen until
(62:13) the media thing happens. Yeah.
(62:14) >> But why why hasn't the media happened?
(62:16) It's in part because new media is not
(62:18) successful from liberals. And the reason
(62:19) why it's not
(62:20) >> new media Republicans didn't do good
(62:22) things with new media. They've just had
(62:24) the crazy apparatus built out for a lot
(62:26) of
(62:27) >> Yeah. Republicans could just like
(62:28) hamfist it. Democrats can't even do that
(62:29) cuz they can't even find people that are
(62:31) interesting enough to watch to throw
(62:32) money behind. I I I I've been working.
(62:35) I'm telling you,
(62:36) >> in like five minutes, but Kon has we I'm
(62:39) trying to to respect his his time. And I
(62:42) did have a question for him before he
(62:45) has to go, right? And so, no, this is
(62:48) great. We're going to keep it up and
(62:49) we're going to keep going once Kyon has
(62:51) to leave, but that's okay. But, uh, to
(62:53) to Kon, right? Um, when it comes to
(62:55) things like Hassan [ __ ] how should
(62:59) Democratic
(63:00) influencers, politicians who go on shows
(63:03) like CNN or Fox News or all these other
(63:05) shows, when they are asked the question,
(63:07) which they often are about Hassan [ __ ]
(63:10) is the move in your opinion to be like,
(63:14) well, why are we we shouldn't talk about
(63:16) him? We should talk about Trump and
(63:17) pivot or is it to distance and say
(63:20) Hassan [ __ ] does not represent us. he
(63:23) is someone who we are uh fundamentally
(63:25) against or is it kind of a hybrid or a
(63:27) secret third thing?
(63:28) >> Yeah, I think I think it is a bit of a
(63:30) hybrid and again it depends on who the
(63:32) person is. If it's a boring person with
(63:34) limited charisma, their options are
(63:36) limited frankly and it's probably easier
(63:38) for them to just try to dodge and move
(63:39) on and talk about what they want. But
(63:41) even just getting back to the Biden age
(63:43) example, right, that Destiny brought up
(63:45) with Mitch McConnell being such a clear
(63:47) comparison. Part of why Democrats lose
(63:50) these conversations is what
(63:51) congressional Democrat, what Democratic
(63:53) senator that has been on Jake Tapper's
(63:55) show has said, "What the hell are you
(63:57) doing? You wrote an entire book about
(63:59) Joe Biden being an old man and you don't
(64:01) care that Mitch McConnell, who's still
(64:04) in office, who's incredibly powerful in
(64:06) the Republican party, is a vegetable?
(64:08) That sounds weird to me." And
(64:10) Republicans do that type of stuff all
(64:12) the time, whether it's warranted or not.
(64:14) And I know we just have a few minutes
(64:15) left because um I'm catch c catching a
(64:16) flight, but um would love to come back.
(64:18) One of the points I want to leave this
(64:21) internet conversation on is that
(64:24) absolutely the the internet's important
(64:25) in politics, but the real goal is not to
(64:28) win the internet, is to get people to
(64:31) have internet be a touch point so people
(64:33) take actions offline. And Republicans
(64:36) are also much better at that. You know,
(64:38) it was the anniversary of Charlie Kirk's
(64:40) assassination last month and um I worked
(64:42) with a bunch of young sort of
(64:44) progressive organizations and they all
(64:46) want to go viral on Instagram and they
(64:47) all want to do this stuff. Charlie Kirk
(64:49) absolutely people recognize the debate
(64:51) moments and sort of like targeting
(64:53) different college students and going
(64:54) viral for it. But what he really built
(64:57) was a hundred million dollar incredibly
(65:00) topdown organization that has thousands
(65:03) of chapters across colleges and high
(65:05) schools in every state of the country
(65:07) and employs full-time operatives to be
(65:10) doing daily work, daily outreach, daily
(65:13) events and community building. Democrats
(65:16) don't have that. Hassan [ __ ] is not
(65:18) doing that. There's nobody doing that in
(65:20) the same way. And absolutely the digital
(65:22) piece matters but digital is sort of a
(65:25) touch point to so much else of the
(65:28) ground game and the work that needs to
(65:29) be done and that is constantly
(65:31) overlooked because big donors people who
(65:34) want attention it's flashy and easy to
(65:37) and you know you say oh I got a million
(65:39) views that sounds good that's nothing
(65:41) right I mean you all know that so I
(65:43) think that that is part of the
(65:45) conversation too it's like of course we
(65:48) want to go viral but to what end? And I
(65:52) think that needs to be the question
(65:53) always and I think that a lot of the
(65:55) times is missing from the conversation.
(65:57) >> Well, this is this is the issue is like
(65:58) when I talk to Democrat senators I know
(66:00) I know it's just like okay first of all
(66:02) not all views are the same. A million
(66:04) views on Destiny's stream is like
(66:07) getting 200 million views on a short
(66:09) like Democrats don't even understand
(66:11) this when I try to explain to people
(66:14) streams. Good luck selling streams even
(66:16) though
(66:17) stream is like $13. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I
(66:20) get it. Um, uh, Kyon, I know you have to
(66:22) go and you're welcome back anytime.
(66:23) Obviously, uh, that there's a wealth of
(66:26) things to talk about. Uh, where can
(66:27) people find you and what do you got
(66:29) coming up?
(66:30) >> Yeah, so um, you can check out my
(66:32) podcast, Extremely Reasonable. I'm on
(66:34) YouTube at Kyon Trro Media and I'm
(66:36) pretty much on every social media
(66:38) platform, just my name, Kyon Trro. Um,
(66:40) and yeah, hope to be continuing this
(66:42) work. I think it's really important to
(66:44) get sort of a beefier set of um set of
(66:47) voices out there who have sort of
(66:48) reasonable positions. So, thanks for
(66:50) having me and really appreciated the
(66:51) conversation.
(66:52) >> Well, I'm glad you did. And it got a
(66:54) little heated uh on occasion, but this
(66:56) is what we do here on Wick TV. Thank you
(66:58) for coming and we'll let you we'll let
(67:00) you go. And uh
(67:01) >> thank you so much for coming, guys.
(67:03) >> Yeah. Thanks for joining. Um,
(67:06) now now I have a a few uh a few
(67:08) questions or or comments I guess on uh
(67:11) the the kind of argument you guys are
(67:13) having, Stephen and Kyla, right? Like
(67:15) when we talk about Son [ __ ] being cool,
(67:18) what do you mean?
(67:20) >> Uh
(67:21) >> I would think like broad appeal to most
(67:23) people that look like Barack Obama was
(67:24) cool even Republicans. Like you have to
(67:26) admit he has like he had like a high
(67:28) approval rating at the very least.
(67:29) >> Cool. He's so and cool doesn't just mean
(67:31) attractive. I just want to be very very
(67:32) clear. And it's like, God, I'm not going
(67:34) to lie. This is one of the liberal
(67:36) problems. Why the [ __ ] am I having to
(67:37) explain what cool is? I I don't know.
(67:38) Look at it. I don't know. He's super
(67:41) tall. He's got super broad shoulders.
(67:43) He's obviously super attractive. He
(67:45) paints his nail. And when he doesn't
(67:47) dress himself and he the people he pays
(67:48) for dresses him, he's kind of like old
(67:50) and edgy and he [ __ ] porn stars and
(67:52) like he's got this big mansion. Like I
(67:55) don't know all of the things. He's got
(67:57) famous friends that are like uh
(67:59) non-political creators. So he's got like
(68:01) all these different touch points into
(68:03) like non-political spaces like he's was
(68:05) like with Terra Yummy recently and stuff
(68:07) like that. So like there's all these
(68:09) little things that help him globally be
(68:12) cool and it's not just attractive
(68:14) because Barack is a great example of
(68:15) somebody who's Yeah. super cool.
(68:17) >> I guess I guess the the the issue I have
(68:20) with that kind of framing of things is
(68:22) like I see him as a celebrity.
(68:24) Absolutely. He has a lot of um
(68:27) popularity in that way. But I don't see
(68:29) that as the same because again, as
(68:32) Destiny cited with the opinion polls,
(68:34) most people who watch or who know of him
(68:37) do not like him. They do not find him
(68:40) someone that they want to emulate or be
(68:43) around. Now, he does have a little cult
(68:44) of personality going, but the problem is
(68:47) you will only hear the positives for the
(68:50) most part, especially on the online
(68:52) spaces, because the negatives, if you go
(68:56) and you insult Hassan or you speak ill
(68:59) of Hassan, you are you're you're
(69:02) basically bullied into silence. And we
(69:03) can see this with a uh who is that? Ryan
(69:06) Beard guy recently, right? He wouldn't
(69:08) even do a uh he wouldn't even do a show
(69:12) on um Hassan [ __ ] because he got so
(69:16) much push back. So much
(69:17) >> look, you don't have to explain to me
(69:19) Hassan [ __ ] destroying. Okay, he spread
(69:21) that blame like 50,000 people live,
(69:23) right? So like I'm no lover of Hassan,
(69:25) right? I look at Hassan and I go, what
(69:27) are the things that are effective that
(69:28) we can pull from him to make liberals
(69:30) even more successful? Because while I
(69:31) would So I think one of the things
(69:33) that's important to make sure that I
(69:34) like front end in this conversation is
(69:36) when I'm critiquing liberals, it's not
(69:38) because I'm saying we suck and that's
(69:40) it. I understand that liberals are up
(69:42) against two fronts and that's really
(69:44) really difficult, right? But I think
(69:46) part of why we're up against two fronts
(69:48) is frankly because when new media and
(69:50) internet was starting, liberals dragged
(69:53) on it. They were not involved at all.
(69:56) Most millennials my age aren't internet
(69:58) people. they don't know anything about
(70:00) it, right? And so we have severely
(70:02) lagged, which is why a lot of popular
(70:05) new media spaces that appeal to somebody
(70:07) under 35 has somebody with a either a
(70:11) socialist bent or is at least social
(70:12) like socialist cucked. Like they they
(70:14) never want to talk too negative about it
(70:16) because they don't want the the push
(70:17) back because the culture, the broad
(70:19) general culture, the very uninformed,
(70:21) barely political person generally thinks
(70:24) socialists are kind of cool because
(70:26) they've branded themselves as we just
(70:27) want Medicare for all. And then they see
(70:29) a bunch of people led by like people
(70:30) like Hassan or Zoran Mani and they're
(70:32) like, "Man, they seem like pretty nice
(70:33) guys. I don't know what all these
(70:35) liberals are [ __ ] winging about. They
(70:36) seem kind of whiny." Right? Um that's
(70:39) the issue that I think we're running to
(70:40) running into. It is like exclusively a
(70:45) um efficacy in new media which is
(70:48) multifaceted in the reasons why liberals
(70:51) struggle with it,
(70:54) >> but we are failing. response from
(70:57) Stephen on that.
(70:58) >> I mean, I just decided it was the same
(70:59) thing as before. I just I don't think it
(71:00) has I think it has little to do with
(71:02) that. I think it's the I don't think
(71:03) Republicans are necessarily good at
(71:05) media. I just think that they had or
(71:06) good at digital media. I just think that
(71:08) they had
(71:11) no wait, their turnaround time of
(71:12) funding is crazy. Like I know people
(71:14) that in the MAGA
(71:15) >> funding is not media though.
(71:16) >> It it's a huge part of getting new media
(71:18) off the ground. Yeah. Funding.
(71:19) >> Correct. I agree with you there. I agree
(71:21) with you there. Yes. So, what I'm saying
(71:22) is Republicans aren't good at media.
(71:24) what they're good at is politics and and
(71:26) practicing the exercise of their
(71:28) political power. So what Republicans do
(71:30) because they recognize how important it
(71:31) is to have that control of that entire
(71:33) media ecosystem is [ __ ] you know
(71:35) McConnell doesn't know how to do
(71:36) internet debates or advertising online
(71:37) but when they see somebody who can like
(71:39) Charlie Kirk they're going to throw a
(71:41) bunch of money at him and invest in him
(71:42) and that's why he was popular not
(71:43) because conservatives have some novel
(71:44) understanding of anything because again
(71:46) liberals are the ones that dominate the
(71:47) culture in all of these spaces but
(71:49) liberals don't have a good way to
(71:50) translate it into political power
(71:51) because all of the media parts of the
(71:54) liberal apparatus don't see themselves
(71:55) as strictly political actors whereas all
(71:58) the Republican parts or conservative
(71:59) parts do see themselves as political
(72:01) >> actors. And I want to make sure that I'm
(72:02) clarifying because it feels like what
(72:03) you just outlined to me is a different
(72:05) is like a delineation without a
(72:06) difference. When I say that Republicans
(72:07) are good at media, I don't mean Mitch
(72:09) McConnell is interesting to listen to. I
(72:11) mean they're very good at getting the
(72:14) most skilled people who will be the most
(72:15) sickantic funding immediately and
(72:18) quickly and investing in it. And
(72:20) Democrats are dog [ __ ] at it. Sure. But
(72:23) what I'm saying is that like for them to
(72:24) do that, every single person has to be
(72:26) on board
(72:28) >> because it's not just that they can fund
(72:29) the media, it's also that once they're
(72:31) funding the media, all the other
(72:32) Republicans have agreed that it's a good
(72:34) idea and they're all going to fall in
(72:36) line behind it. Because if you get
(72:37) somebody funding the media and then a
(72:39) whole bunch of other Republicans are now
(72:40) calling them out on it and infighting
(72:41) over it, well, now it doesn't work
(72:42) anymore. So the issue is it can never be
(72:44) just one side or one thing that's making
(72:45) the push. It has to be a decision by the
(72:47) entire apparatus to say, "Okay, well,
(72:49) this is the direction we're going to go
(72:50) in and if somebody does something here,
(72:52) all of us are kind of roped into and
(72:54) agreed to be defensive of the entire
(72:55) thing because we know that we're all
(72:56) moving towards a certain political
(72:58) goal."
(72:58) >> Yeah. How much of this conversation is
(73:00) an artifact of the fact that on the the
(73:03) Republican end, right, they MAGA MAGA is
(73:08) just the dominant ideology on the
(73:10) Republican side. There is no real
(73:11) infighting of of any note partly.
(73:14) Totally true. Especially now kind of a
(73:17) circular thing.
(73:17) >> It's very not true now. Like the the
(73:19) Republican side is schism like pretty
(73:20) hard. Um it it's beginning to schism.
(73:23) Yes. Well, it's schism but this is
(73:25) atypical. This is not what is ordinary
(73:26) for them. That's why I said now.
(73:28) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Traditionally that was
(73:31) not the case at least in the last 10
(73:33) years.
(73:34) >> I would say 14 years 20 years solid.
(73:36) Yeah. the Democrats have been fighting
(73:39) amongst each other in factional
(73:42) infighting between the kind of more the
(73:43) the moderate establishment types and
(73:45) then the the I guess the more populist
(73:48) far-left types um for a while. And so
(73:51) it's really hard to get people to even
(73:55) know who to invest in. Do you invest in
(73:56) a Hassan or do you invest in a Destiny?
(73:58) Do you invest in both? Do you invest in
(74:00) neither? And it and each side tries to
(74:02) and and I guess for lack of a better
(74:04) word sabotage each other. I guess again
(74:06) the chorus example great example of one
(74:10) faction sabotaging the other.
(74:11) >> I think I think it's the problem with
(74:13) liberals is that everything that makes
(74:15) liberals awesome and great and good at
(74:17) policy is what makes them really [ __ ] at
(74:19) new media. And I think unfortunately
(74:21) they absolutely sold out new media to
(74:24) like more radical spaces really early
(74:26) on. So the toothpaste is out of like out
(74:28) of the tube at this point, right? we
(74:30) have this really big issue that Stephen
(74:32) is identifying which is that like yeah
(74:33) there's a lot of really costic big
(74:35) podcasts and not a lot of of warm ones
(74:37) right there's very little of this and
(74:39) part of that is the nature of liberals
(74:40) right they're like prone to critique and
(74:42) they're prone to like wanting to like
(74:44) kind of hyper analyze and obsess but
(74:45) like I mean let's just think about a a
(74:48) transaction that I'm trying to think
(74:49) about if you want for example say I talk
(74:52) to Alyssa Slokin and Alyssa Slotkin
(74:54) wants to get better new media for her
(74:56) campaign okay the process to get anyone
(75:00) through, I'm going to have to go through
(75:01) multiple checks and a lot of staffers
(75:03) won't want to put their neck on the
(75:04) line. Say I go, "Why did you go on Wick
(75:06) TV stream?" The issue is that there is
(75:08) about five different points where that
(75:10) will get vetoed because any single
(75:12) person that attaches themselves to your
(75:13) name and anything that comes out of it
(75:15) that's negative. Even if it's not
(75:16) negative, even if it's not a big deal
(75:19) because they aren't internet people,
(75:21) they don't understand that like three
(75:22) mean emails isn't a big deal, right?
(75:25) That's not the thing that you need to
(75:26) worry about. But that is what they worry
(75:28) about because they all are email
(75:29) substack people, right? So if I pitch
(75:31) them to you and the staffer who sticks
(75:34) their neck out to put them on Wick TV
(75:35) and by going on Wick TV they get three
(75:37) mean emails, well the entire staff now
(75:40) will be convinced that that was a bad
(75:41) decision and that staffer's neck is on
(75:43) the line. They might lose their job,
(75:45) right? So staffers don't want to stick
(75:46) their neck out for any type of risks.
(75:48) the chief media people typically have
(75:51) zero knowledge on the internet space and
(75:54) typically if they're going to do any
(75:55) sort of like reels or clips or anything
(75:57) they all they all still go through group
(76:00) testing like they literally will do
(76:01) focus groups before they release reels
(76:03) and it's getting better there's
(76:04) increasingly like more and more people
(76:05) not doing this but I'm not joking there
(76:07) are multiple situations where like
(76:09) people will ask for clips I will help
(76:11) like work with them on that project and
(76:13) then they will put it through testing so
(76:14) that by the time the clip is released
(76:16) two weeks later it doesn't matter the
(76:17) the the verality of that moment is gone,
(76:20) right? So, there are like multiple steps
(76:21) along the way and they won't pay for it
(76:23) and then when they finally do pay for
(76:24) it, it's run by some other political
(76:26) staffer who doesn't know anything about
(76:27) [ __ ] media like over and over and
(76:29) over and over again. Right? So, when I'm
(76:31) saying that like liberals need to get
(76:33) good at new media, I am telling you
(76:35) liberals need to get [ __ ] good at at
(76:36) new media. And Steven is correct that
(76:39) there is an absolutely costic double
(76:40) front war that they are coming up
(76:42) against that like I don't actually know
(76:44) the perfect solution to other than like
(76:45) having some like white blood cell um
(76:48) constantly like going out which I just I
(76:49) just don't know if that's actually the
(76:50) right strategy. Like maybe I'm open to
(76:52) it. But
(76:55) >> yeah, I mean I feel like we're going in
(76:56) circles, but I mean like my my feeling
(76:58) is just that it's impossible. The
(77:00) everything you're talking about is just
(77:01) a resulting thing from the what people
(77:04) understand their political missions to
(77:05) be that if somebody go first of all I
(77:07) think I don't think it's the case right
(77:08) now that it's just a few bad emails.
(77:10) It's it will be relentless pressure from
(77:12) people who are trying to destroy your
(77:15) political project if they if you're
(77:16) acting in a way that they view as out of
(77:18) political alignment. So for the for the
(77:20) leftist squad now, it might have been
(77:21) five or 10 years ago with the
(77:22) progressives maybe, but with the Marxist
(77:24) socialist types, it the pressure and the
(77:26) harassment will be relentless until they
(77:27) make you fall in line. And I just don't
(77:29) think there's any way to like until like
(77:33) people on the Democratic side joining
(77:36) podcasts and and taking part in these
(77:37) places. I just don't think you're ever
(77:39) going to be able to convince them of
(77:40) that or win that fight when there's so
(77:42) much negative pressure from the
(77:45) >> from the lefty squad or whatever. I
(77:47) agree. Especially when Especially when
(77:49) there's almost no apparatus on the
(77:50) counter side of giving them lots and
(77:51) lots of positive affirmation because I
(77:53) think that like liberals have a hard
(77:54) time getting I mean I am like buckling
(77:56) down for a whole bunch of people being
(77:58) mad at me for this conversation even
(77:59) though it's like we're all politically
(78:01) aligned and like I do a ton of
(78:02) organizing. Nobody nobody should be mad
(78:04) at me at all even if I disagree by like
(78:06) 2% with anyone. But that is going to
(78:07) happen. Liberals are still doing it.
(78:08) We're still chasing people out of our
(78:10) own group by like not being pure enough.
(78:11) >> Well, careful not liberals. No, no, it's
(78:12) it's the socialists because they're part
(78:14) of a different team. I don't think
(78:15) liberals are chasing you out. I think
(78:16) it's going to be the leftists. And then
(78:18) it might be some stupid liberals, people
(78:20) like Pisco or the pill that get caught
(78:21) in the web of [ __ ] because they don't
(78:22) understand what's going on. But it's
(78:23) it's all driven by leftists. By and
(78:25) large, I don't think it's going to be
(78:26) liberals that are in fighting anywhere
(78:28) near as much. They do a little bit, but
(78:29) not not as near as much as the
(78:31) malevolent faction inside the party
(78:32) that's explicitly trying to drive out
(78:34) moderate voices. I I will say that at
(78:38) least uh the the people I'm working with
(78:40) in and tba and land we are trying to
(78:43) kind of change this dynamic and and kind
(78:45) of give I guess my theory of action here
(78:49) is that if we can give examples of
(78:53) positive
(78:54) interactions working and will kind of
(78:59) provide a sort of insulation against a
(79:02) lot of the negativity that you're
(79:03) talking about uh Kyla that comes when uh
(79:07) people go on to streams and things like
(79:10) that. Uh Shannon Watts was a good
(79:11) example because I think the positivity
(79:13) of that has gotten me more interviews
(79:15) and more people are willing to come
(79:17) forward. For example, um on Tuesday I'll
(79:20) be interviewing uh Reverend Vaughn of
(79:24) the Ebenezer Baptist Church for my
(79:26) Georgia My Vote. He uh is the pastor of
(79:29) the church that Martin Luther King Jr.
(79:32) used to uh be a pastor of back in the
(79:35) 1930s. And that's a pretty normie guy,
(79:38) right? Like it's a pretty normie thing.
(79:40) And you think people, oh, they're going
(79:41) to get push back if they come on a show
(79:43) like Wick TV. But I I I think that the
(79:46) more positive interactions we can show
(79:49) where nothing bad happened, nothing
(79:50) caught on fire, and it was a pleasant
(79:52) conversation that allowed people to get
(79:55) their thoughts out, um that's going to
(79:57) provide that insulation. But it just
(79:59) takes time and it just takes effort. But
(80:00) I'm glad we got people like uh you
(80:03) putting in that effort, Kyla, because I
(80:04) know you're you're on setting up these
(80:06) things. Yeah,
(80:07) >> I do want to say I
(80:07) >> I agree. I agree with both parts of that
(80:09) in terms of what you're with what Kyla's
(80:11) saying. They need to be more positive
(80:12) stuff. But the thing you have to be
(80:13) careful of is sometimes the way that um
(80:15) and I don't know where where either of
(80:17) you where your minds are when you say
(80:18) this when you say like, oh, we just need
(80:20) to show that there's not a harm or that
(80:21) we can be um there can be positivity on
(80:23) the side. There is a harm. There is a
(80:25) very real harm and it is driven by one
(80:26) side that is very intentionally trying
(80:28) to do it and that you that has to be
(80:30) reckoned with.
(80:31) >> What do you mean? Can you can you
(80:32) elaborate?
(80:34) >> Mass harassment campaigns by the by the
(80:36) your lefty types online. Like those are
(80:38) real things that you're going to have to
(80:39) deal with. Yeah.
(80:40) >> Yeah. That's true.
(80:41) >> Yes. But I've also experienced mass
(80:42) harassment campaigns from liberals,
(80:44) right? Like this is
(80:45) >> Yes. Yes.
(80:47) I would say who when he who shall not be
(80:51) named is absolutely was a liberal and
(80:53) all of the people within it were also
(80:54) liberals. Uh like just like just like
(80:58) and supreme for example. These were
(80:59) definitely liberals. They are just like
(81:02) us now just like a
(81:03) >> grifter. Sure. Well no but who were they
(81:05) weaponized by the lefties?
(81:08) >> Themselves first. They mostly just got
(81:10) whipped up. Well, sure, but when they
(81:11) were Well, sure. But when I mean, in the
(81:13) early days for that, sure. But I don't
(81:15) think they were doing that as like
(81:17) political actors. These are just like
(81:18) online.
(81:19) >> Another mutual friend of ours that shall
(81:20) not be named also been a major issue.
(81:22) Been a major thorn in not just my side,
(81:25) but many people's side is constantly
(81:26) doing liberal infighting. Like I have
(81:29) >> I don't want to say their name publicly.
(81:31) >> Okay. I so far I haven't heard a single
(81:33) thing that breaks any of my paradigms.
(81:34) That's why I'm asking because I think
(81:35) everything I've said is attracts 100%. I
(81:37) don't like the people that have the
(81:38) worst thing that happened with the just
(81:40) and all these people was they got
(81:41) connected to the lefties and that's why
(81:43) now you see because the thing that makes
(81:44) them so powerful
(81:45) >> before they were connected to the
(81:46) lefties like I just was I was
(81:48) >> that's fine you could be murdered by
(81:49) somebody I'm talking for political
(81:51) action their hatred of you and
(81:52) everything was like online politics not
(81:53) connected to like politics
(81:55) >> as a result of just listen yeah
(81:57) >> this doesn't contradict anything I'm
(81:58) saying though I understand like I fought
(81:59) with these people as well but it wasn't
(82:01) that like it is take even in my
(82:02) beginning fighting with it wasn't
(82:03) politically oriented even after the
(82:05) pixie stuff it wasn't a political thing,
(82:07) but now they are connected to a
(82:08) political thing and now they're
(82:08) amplified by Hassan. That's why these
(82:10) guys have so much more power now. I
(82:12) understand maybe individually towards
(82:13) you, especially for you, and I'm not
(82:14) denying that, by the way, because people
(82:15) absolutely are [ __ ] unhinged and have
(82:17) been unhinged towards you or whatever.
(82:18) But um the the attacks on you in the
(82:20) past, I don't think were driven by like
(82:21) a genuine desire for political power.
(82:23) This was kind of like online beefs or
(82:25) whatever, which can be really bad. But
(82:26) um the Yeah, it's not the same as
(82:28) >> agree. I agree that the intention is
(82:30) different, right? Like I agree, for
(82:31) example, that like just and the person I
(82:33) can just message you their name, you're
(82:34) going to know who I'm talking about in
(82:35) like two seconds. Um I agree that the
(82:38) intention like the goal there like I I I
(82:41) know DSA people. I've talked to a lot of
(82:42) like more very open-faced DSA people who
(82:45) are very clear about what exactly they
(82:46) are doing. Like I understand that this
(82:48) is actually the mechanism that you were
(82:49) describing is something that is
(82:50) intentionally done within the DSA. Like
(82:52) I know this and understand this. The
(82:54) issue is that like there is liberal
(82:55) infighting that is extremely costic that
(82:57) we have to be honest about. And this
(82:58) isn't to say that like therefore or you
(83:00) know we're all [ __ ] but it's to say I
(83:03) think when we fixate on only like one
(83:05) specific side, we get very negligent
(83:07) about like the failings of our own team,
(83:09) right? And I think like we have to just
(83:12) >> uh sorry I'm I'm sim I'm simultaneously
(83:15) like it feels like you're saying like
(83:16) just like as a liberal he's just
(83:18) somebody that got weaponized by like the
(83:19) leftist but it's just like
(83:20) >> yeah just not a liberal not at all.
(83:22) >> He just was when he was part of the
(83:23) community he was absolutely sorry.
(83:25) >> He was a griper. He came from point.
(83:27) >> I agree. I mean, he's mostly a grifter
(83:29) and I agree with that. But when he was
(83:30) part of the community, he was absolutely
(83:31) Well, Supreme was absolutely
(83:33) >> No, not a grifter. Not a grifter, a
(83:34) griper. A griper. And Wicked Supreme, I
(83:36) don't think it's motivated by political
(83:38) stuff. Like, I don't think a politician
(83:39) writer is going to run into the same
(83:40) type of hate from these. These are like
(83:41) personal beefs and feuds. We know these
(83:42) people personally, I think.
(83:43) >> I Yes. But when the allegations and
(83:46) everything happened, the dominant group
(83:47) of people that came after me were
(83:48) liberals, right? It took a while before
(83:50) it was lefties, and it was only after
(83:52) criticizing stuff, but they were coming.
(83:54) It's because it was like a bad
(83:55) allegation related to like sexual stuff.
(83:57) I don't think it was because people like
(83:58) they were aligning on political power
(84:00) sides.
(84:01) >> I guess to me I don't know I don't know
(84:04) how much I care about that when it's
(84:06) like what they did is like nerfed me out
(84:08) of multiple jobs um and whatnot. And the
(84:11) person I'll send to you sorry I'm trying
(84:13) to lock and get this sent to you while
(84:14) I'm talking to you at the same time. I
(84:15) mean this person just was political. It
(84:17) just it just is in every single way
(84:19) political.
(84:21) It's also malicious and personal, but
(84:23) for a lot of DSA people like Hassan with
(84:25) you is is just as much personal as it is
(84:27) political.
(84:29) >> I super disagree, but I understand what
(84:30) you're saying. I just But I Yeah.
(84:33) >> Okay. I think that a lot of people that
(84:35) were like spreading my allegations that
(84:37) were like getting the most mad at me
(84:38) that were like emailing workplaces for
(84:40) me were once Destiny fans. They were not
(84:42) Hassan fans. Hassan fans came later. I
(84:43) got like two waves of it. But people
(84:46) calling me a spy, people calling me a
(84:47) sellout, all these sort of things.
(84:48) People
(84:49) >> like I could make this prediction. I bet
(84:51) my
(84:51) >> I understand what you're saying. You're
(84:52) saying people that are Yeah, these
(84:54) aren't these are not political actors
(84:55) though. If I were to change my politics
(84:56) to align 100% with Asmin Gold and join
(84:58) the Republican party, Hassan would never
(85:00) talk about me again. Every maybe every
(85:01) now and then he'd laugh, but he would
(85:02) never talk about me because I'm not in
(85:04) his sphere of what he's trying to
(85:05) corrupt and take over. So, his fixation
(85:07) on me is because I'm a liberal and
(85:09) because we're fighting overly the same
(85:12) group of people or or party, that's what
(85:14) fixates the attacks on me so much. If I
(85:16) if I was a Republican or if I switched
(85:17) over and just started streaming a video
(85:18) with Asmin Gold and said I was a
(85:19) Republican, not a Democrat, he'd stop
(85:20) talking about me.
(85:22) >> Um,
(85:24) >> I don't know that's true. Honestly,
(85:26) >> 100%. 100 trillion%.
(85:28) >> Asmin Gold maybe. I feel like I I feel
(85:30) like a lot of leftists that hate you
(85:32) would talk about you even if you became
(85:33) a leftist. Frankly,
(85:36) >> if I became a leftist,
(85:38) >> if you went DSA, I think they would
(85:40) still
(85:40) >> I mean like again, I could try to find
(85:42) something that breaks the mold, but I
(85:43) feel like every single like I mean I
(85:46) feel like every single prediction in
(85:47) terms of like how the media environment
(85:48) would work and how it's played out and
(85:50) how everything is working. I feel like
(85:51) more or less has has come to pass that
(85:53) um Hassan doesn't really fight with
(85:54) Republicans anywhere near with the same
(85:56) level of viciousness as he does with
(85:57) Democrats. That when Republicans fight
(86:00) with Hassan, they don't actually they
(86:01) just use Hassan as a vector to attack
(86:03) Democrats with. Nobody has ever tried to
(86:05) deplatform or get Huzan banned really
(86:07) from on the Republican side because they
(86:08) seem as like a useful vector. Um but
(86:10) when they attack like liberals, they do
(86:11) try to get them deplatformed or banned.
(86:13) I'm demonetized. Um Jimmy Kimmel and
(86:15) Stephen Co Bayer getting kicked out of
(86:16) things and shutting people down from the
(86:17) press. They never treat the far left
(86:19) this way. Look at how excited they are
(86:20) to bring the co-chair of the DSA on to
(86:21) ask her all these wonderful questions
(86:22) because they know it makes all the
(86:23) Democrats look bad. Um yeah, I just
(86:26) don't I think that the exercise of
(86:28) political power here is very deliberate
(86:29) from the leftist side. Um, I do agree
(86:31) that there might be issues with like
(86:33) liberal infighting, but it's like issues
(86:35) with liberal infighting. It's different
(86:37) than the socialist DSA types who are
(86:39) deliberately trying to be a corrosive
(86:41) cancerous thing inside the Democratic
(86:43) party versus like liberals who just kind
(86:44) of do standard like, oh, Jake Tapper
(86:46) writing another like Jake Tapper is not
(86:47) a socialist trying to destroy the
(86:48) Democratic party. He just thinks it's
(86:49) important to hold Joe Biden accountable.
(86:51) Whereas Hassan [ __ ] will celebrate when
(86:53) Joe Biden dies. It's it's a different
(86:55) thing and all the leftists will. What
(86:57) I'm curious what do you Can you name the
(86:59) trait that distinguishes between like
(87:00) the leftist audience and the liberal
(87:03) audience that come for creators that
(87:04) they think have done something wrong? Is
(87:06) there like a trait here that's
(87:07) distinguishing these two groups for you?
(87:09) >> What do you mean by done something
(87:11) wrong?
(87:11) >> Whatever the whatever they perceive to
(87:13) be bad that they will start going after
(87:15) a creator for
(87:17) >> on a political level or
(87:19) >> um no like just
(87:21) >> because you're talking about like people
(87:21) get cancelceled because of like a me too
(87:23) or thing like I don't think this is
(87:24) strictly a political thing. There's like
(87:25) a there's a move in like a social sphere
(87:26) that's not really as relevant anymore.
(87:28) If you're talking about like when they
(87:29) decide to go after people politically,
(87:30) it's if you are on the team and you will
(87:32) vote for and support socialists, you can
(87:34) do whatever you want. It doesn't matter.
(87:35) You can be a billionaire like Tim Styer.
(87:36) Um you can be a rapist like Grant
(87:38) Platner. It really doesn't matter. For
(87:39) the most part, they're always going to
(87:40) sim for you or stand for you. If you are
(87:42) a liberal, it really doesn't matter what
(87:43) you stand for. Even if you're Scott
(87:44) Weiner and you say that it's a genocide,
(87:46) there's nothing that you can do ever
(87:47) that will ever make you acceptable them.
(87:48) If you're a liberal, you have to be on
(87:50) the social. Same thing with mega on the
(87:51) Republican side. You have to be willing
(87:52) to vote for and support the Republican
(87:54) party. Is the trait maybe that you're
(87:55) outlining here that you think is
(87:56) distinguishing a difference between like
(87:58) the liberal creators that I've outlined
(87:59) that come for after people versus the
(88:01) leftists is like subversiveness. Does
(88:03) that feel like like political
(88:04) subversiveness? Like they're
(88:05) intentionally being subversive in their
(88:06) coming out.
(88:07) >> I don't know if li I mean liberals might
(88:08) like infight a bit, but I don't think
(88:10) they do it. It's not like the obsessive
(88:11) type of infighting that um that like
(88:14) leftists do. I can I can give you an
(88:18) anecdote and keep in mind it is just an
(88:21) anecdote and I'm much smaller than both
(88:22) of you, but I've had people who get
(88:26) angry at me who I would consider
(88:28) liberals. Sometimes when me and Destiny
(88:30) go at it, right, when we strongly
(88:32) disagree on things, I will have people
(88:36) who I consider liberal and liberal
(88:38) communities say mean things about me
(88:40) online, right? They will post mean
(88:42) Reddit comments. Some might even DM me,
(88:45) right? being like, I can't believe you
(88:46) thought this, this is so dumb, etc.
(88:48) Right? It's a very different thing than
(88:51) when I go after or people who are in the
(88:55) DSA or who are more left. Um, the tone
(88:57) is different, the style is different,
(88:59) just the the things that people are
(89:01) willing to do are different when it's
(89:04) from the uh left than what is from the
(89:06) more liberal side. It's it's not the
(89:09) same. And again, my experience, just an
(89:11) anecdote, right? But uh It's there are
(89:16) lines liberals seem to have that
(89:18) leftists don't.
(89:21) >> I I'm curious when you're talking about
(89:22) this like political subversive like
(89:24) politically motivated attack. Where does
(89:27) like an essay allegation that gets like
(89:29) super
(89:30) >> I think it's like a cultural thing
(89:31) basically what you're talking about at
(89:33) all.
(89:34) >> Not really. No.
(89:35) >> And you think that that doesn't
(89:36) >> but I mean you can see how it plays out.
(89:37) You can see how
(89:39) >> Wait, what? I because like I'm I'm
(89:41) thinking about the like to me these two
(89:43) things are deeply interconnected which
(89:45) is why I think I'm struggling to
(89:46) understand the point that you
(89:47) >> well I don't think it's essay stuff is
(89:48) what people are normally getting
(89:49) cancelled for or not canceled I'm sorry
(89:51) it's not are not like your main
(89:51) political attacks or political fights
(89:53) right now the main political fight is
(89:54) over like that lefty try to go after
(89:56) people for israel palestine
(89:59) >> uh yeah but I feel like a lot of people
(90:01) on the left have been absolutely like
(90:03) nuked over essay allegations
(90:06) >> I'm talking I'm I'm talking politics
(90:08) stuff right now not YouTubers or
(90:10) people running for Congress and
(90:11) everything.
(90:11) >> It's hard not to look at these essay
(90:12) allegations that get super mega
(90:14) amplified and not look at the way that
(90:15) they impact that person's polit
(90:17) especially assuming that they're both uh
(90:18) it's a cultural criticism or whatever,
(90:20) but it's a person who does some level of
(90:22) political advocacy or whatnot. It's hard
(90:24) not to look at these essay allegations
(90:25) and go that this obviously has political
(90:27) ramifications, which is I think why I'm
(90:30) having a hard time separating these what
(90:32) you're
(90:32) >> I mean if you want I mean if you want to
(90:34) Sure. Sure. I mean, I guess if you want
(90:35) to play that way, I mean, just look at
(90:36) the difference in treatment that
(90:37) leftists will give um those like essay
(90:39) or sex related things when it's somebody
(90:41) on their team versus somebody else. Like
(90:43) they were way more kind and gentle to
(90:45) Platner and it was only because it was
(90:46) like a literal rape allegation. And even
(90:48) at that, I think was it Sam Cedar
(90:51) recently that was like, well, I don't
(90:52) know if he was treated fairly or
(90:53) whatever. Like these people are way more
(90:55) lenient to their side. Or look at the,
(90:57) you know, for me the rapist sex crimes
(90:58) guy or whatever when a son's got like
(91:00) multiple clips talking about like, oh
(91:01) yeah, like girls send me this stuff and
(91:02) then I show it to my friends and blah
(91:04) blah blah and nobody cares because he's
(91:05) on their team. Like if you're on the
(91:06) right team, people generally on the on
(91:09) the MAGA side and on the leftist side,
(91:11) they just don't really care that much as
(91:13) long as you're on the right team.
(91:14) >> Right. And would you agree with me that
(91:16) liberals are definitely not like this?
(91:19) >> What do you mean? Um, no. Liberals will
(91:20) criticize their own. Sure. will also if
(91:23) a liberal comes out with an essay
(91:25) allegation, liberals are going to drop
(91:27) them
(91:28) >> probably. Yeah, they have. I look at the
(91:30) Al Franken or whatever the [ __ ]
(91:31) Senate. Yeah.
(91:32) >> Yeah. Yes. Okay. Um, so when I'm talking
(91:36) about like the fact that like
(91:38) cancellation, I agree that not the
(91:41) liberals that have come after me aren't
(91:43) necessarily doing it for political
(91:45) subversiveness, right? They're not
(91:46) trying to destroy my whatever small
(91:49) effects that I can have on political
(91:50) advocacy.
(91:52) However, it feels kind of like the
(91:54) outcome is almost identical, which is I
(91:56) think why I'm lumping these two things
(91:58) together.
(92:01) I guess I just mean the if like if
(92:03) liberals are chasing one of their own or
(92:05) something, then I mean hopefully,
(92:07) ideally, it's because they're doing
(92:09) something that they find to be like
(92:12) deeply oppositional to what they believe
(92:15) in, right? So, like if somebody thinks
(92:17) it's like a rape or sexual assault
(92:18) allegation, like it's we probably want
(92:21) people to hold people like that
(92:22) accountable because we don't want to be
(92:22) represented by rapists and stuff, right?
(92:24) I think that's a okay thing. But, um,
(92:28) >> traitor or a spineless or or that you
(92:30) have no principles, right? Like I I see
(92:32) this for example, like I I see DG say
(92:34) this about me like like pretty often. It
(92:35) hasn't been for a while, but there's
(92:37) absolutely been situations where like
(92:38) more tense and that is like one of the
(92:40) biggest things that comes against me and
(92:41) it appears on my Instagram feed. like it
(92:43) just it just does happen and it's
(92:44) happening from other liberals.
(92:45) >> Sure. But you're talking about Yeah. I'm
(92:47) not going to say that liberals don't go
(92:49) after their own when they perceive them
(92:50) as doing a bad thing. The the difference
(92:52) that I'm trying to draw is that leftists
(92:53) will never do this. MAGA will never do
(92:56) this and leftists will go after liberals
(92:58) for much smaller things that maybe
(93:01) liberals won't go after the liberals
(93:02) for. If you're bringing up like rape and
(93:04) stuff, yes, liberals will go after
(93:05) liberals for like sexual assault stuff
(93:06) or like really bad stuff, but leftists
(93:08) and MAGA will not. They don't police
(93:09) their own that way. Uh well I I mean yes
(93:13) for that too but also even I'm
(93:15) increasingly seeing liberals going after
(93:16) people for like people that just like
(93:18) step slightly outside of like whatever
(93:20) view that they think liberals ought have
(93:22) right like not being
(93:23) >> Can you give us an example
(93:24) >> not being sufficiently anti-Dsa enough
(93:26) for example I think is one of the
(93:27) >> I think that's so if you're seeing that
(93:29) that's awesome. Um, but I think the
(93:31) reason why, at least I've been pushing
(93:33) for that is because you cannot share a
(93:35) political space with somebody whose
(93:37) mission is to abuse your rule set and
(93:39) then destroy you using said rule set. So
(93:42) I think there should be no charitability
(93:43) given to leftists. I think it should be
(93:44) hunted out of the party as viciously and
(93:45) as quickly as possible. But the reason
(93:47) why is because they're trying to do the
(93:48) exact same thing to the on the liberal
(93:50) side. So that means that when we're both
(93:51) exercising our cultural power, um
(93:54) whereas liberals might cancel somebody
(93:56) or whatever because they think that
(93:57) they're not um they shouldn't be on our
(93:59) team because they don't share our values
(94:00) because some like some horrible thing
(94:02) they've done. Leftists are using liberal
(94:05) cancellation principles or whatever
(94:06) because they're trying to cleanse the
(94:07) party of people that aren't politically
(94:10) um like uh um aligned with their with
(94:12) the socialist policy basically where
(94:14) they're socialist.
(94:15) >> What is what's the horrible thing being
(94:16) done by somebody who isn't sufficiently
(94:18) anti-Dsa? So, say they're liberal by all
(94:20) their principles and values. They
(94:21) broadly work with liberal candidates.
(94:23) They're very open to working with
(94:24) liberal candidates. However, they are
(94:25) not sufficiently anti-DA. They don't say
(94:27) enough. They're not critical enough.
(94:28) They maybe even carry some water a
(94:29) little bit of the time. What's like the
(94:31) really bad thing that they're doing
(94:32) there that's causing this like liberal
(94:34) like attack?
(94:35) >> They're opening the door. They're
(94:37) they're holding the door open. I'll give
(94:38) you an example from yesterday. I had a
(94:40) debate uh or I hosted a debate. Not
(94:42) yesterday, I'm sorry, Wednesday. I host
(94:43) a debate between Dev and Hunter Dunn,
(94:46) right? And Hunter Dunn is a liberal, but
(94:50) he considers himself a member of the
(94:52) DSA, too, right? Like he's kind of on
(94:54) the far leftish area, right? But he's
(94:56) trying to work with liberals. But during
(94:58) the conversation, he uh we Josh Shapiro
(95:02) came up and he's like, "Oh, Josh Shapiro
(95:04) covered up a murder and would just just
(95:06) spread this conspiracy right on my show
(95:09) and no no hesitation and then fought
(95:12) with me about it for like an hour. we
(95:14) had to take an hour out of the debate
(95:16) because I wouldn't let him get away with
(95:17) it. Right? Like so when we talk about
(95:19) like what is the bad things that these
(95:21) uh people who are not sufficiently
(95:23) anti-DA doing is allowing
(95:27) misinformation, lies and conspiracies
(95:29) about liberal candidates to be spread in
(95:33) the Liberal party. And I think that that
(95:35) is harmful. That is bad. That is
(95:37) something that we need to
(95:38) >> Sure.
(95:39) >> Yeah. And if I were to give even a more
(95:40) if I were to give an even more like
(95:41) important example in my mind, um there
(95:43) is a chance that we lose the Michigan
(95:46) Senate seat and it will be solely 100%
(95:48) the fault of liberals that were not
(95:50) critical enough of the DSA and gave all
(95:52) of them a free pass to infinitely sore
(95:53) through the primaries to now get
(95:54) absolutely [ __ ] destroyed by the
(95:56) Republicans on what should have been the
(95:57) most obvious [ __ ] ever. Well, it was
(95:59) also that they were throwing him behind
(96:01) Stevens despite the fact that McMororrow
(96:03) was a significantly more popular
(96:05) moderate type candidate, but they kept
(96:06) on clinging to Stevens because Stevens
(96:08) was institutionally like grounded and
(96:10) had better connections than McMurro did.
(96:11) So like part of the issue as well is
(96:13) that McMoral wasn't front like supported
(96:15) by the DNC. They selected Stevens which
(96:18) I think was the losing candidate.
(96:21) Maybe that's fine, but it doesn't change
(96:22) anything about the fact that there's no
(96:23) world where people like Hassan who were
(96:25) the most obvious attack admates in the
(96:27) universe should have been appearing as a
(96:29) surrogate beside I'll say it over and
(96:31) over and over again like that should
(96:32) have just there's no world the only way
(96:33) that can happen is if a bunch of
(96:35) liberals just don't really say anything
(96:36) about it and just like sit by and watch
(96:38) it happen while the leftists are
(96:39) practicing their political program that
(96:40) that should have never happened.
(96:42) >> Right. I agree that like the liberals
(96:43) have like left let them in. Right. The
(96:45) issue is that this is a 10-year-old
(96:46) problem. This isn't like a one-year-old
(96:47) program and the toothpaste.
(96:49) >> Well, sure. But you just just I'm just
(96:50) responding to because you asked me like
(96:51) um why should they be so militant or
(96:53) whatever or like what's the pro side of
(96:55) them being more militant to get rid of
(96:57) all the lefties or whatever. And I'm
(96:58) saying that's the issue is that lefties
(96:59) are not playing the same political game
(97:00) that we are and it's going to be
(97:01) detrimental to our eventually to our
(97:03) policies and our ideas. But
(97:04) >> sure, maybe walk me through like what a
(97:06) step by step of like what you want. So
(97:09) like leftist audiences are way more
(97:11) likely to cancel liberal, right? They're
(97:13) um basically they're trying to look for
(97:15) any arguable infraction to basically
(97:17) come after a liberal and be as hard of
(97:19) on them as possible. And because of this
(97:21) like liberal audiences um should be what
(97:25) should they be less charitable to
(97:26) leftists and try to cancel leftists for
(97:28) any arguable infraction? Like what's the
(97:30) step by step of what we're talking
(97:31) about?
(97:32) >> They should just make it very clear that
(97:33) leftists are not part of our political
(97:35) project. They're not they're not on the
(97:36) same team. So anybody that brings them
(97:38) up like knows as much, right? Like, you
(97:40) know, right now, if you bring up Candace
(97:41) Owens, she's not a ordinary Republican
(97:43) right now. Every other Republican knows
(97:44) it because they've kind of exised her.
(97:45) Or if you're looking at people like um
(97:48) um the the guy in Oh my god, who fights
(97:50) with Republicans? The anti-Trumper guy.
(97:52) We just mentioned his name earlier.
(97:55) >> Uh
(97:56) >> I can't. Yes. Yeah. Massie. Um yeah.
(97:58) Like you know that Massie is not a MAGA
(97:59) Republican. They all like it's very
(98:00) clear that he's on the outside that he's
(98:02) not like part of the team. Like it has
(98:04) to be that level of clarity.
(98:07) >> Gotcha. Okay. So they as long as they
(98:09) just say liberals are not the same as
(98:11) socialists like just undoing the
(98:13) marriage basically just want to undo the
(98:15) marriage between
(98:15) >> and if Assan is on your show you're
(98:17) treating him like a political enemy and
(98:18) adversary. Um when you're talking about
(98:20) their candidates when you're dealing
(98:21) with their stuff you treat them as
(98:22) political enemies and adversaries. You
(98:23) give them harsh critical interviews. You
(98:25) don't give them free air time. You don't
(98:26) try to make excuses for them. Um yeah
(98:28) and then it would be pretty clear that
(98:29) they're not part of this political
(98:31) faction. It' be Yeah.
(98:32) >> Okay. Gotcha. Um, and so you think one
(98:35) of the necessary tests for that is u
(98:37) being sufficiently anti-Dsa enough. Like
(98:39) do you think that that is a central
(98:40) thing because it's essential to breaking
(98:42) the marriage that's happened basically
(98:44) between the DSA and the DNC?
(98:46) >> That's sort of I mean I would say the I
(98:47) would say that the DSA is like very
(98:49) obviously not in line with what I would
(98:51) consider like a liberal Democrat to
(98:52) believe her policy. So I mean I would
(98:54) say that should be easy and if somebody
(98:55) has a really difficult time parsing
(98:57) those two things out then I would
(98:58) question if we're even like oriented in
(99:00) the same direction. Well, what about
(99:01) Well, what about the areas where they
(99:03) you are going to be oriented in the
(99:04) exact same direction?
(99:05) >> There are areas with Nazis where we're
(99:06) oriented in the same direction. It
(99:07) doesn't mean you share political space
(99:08) with them.
(99:09) >> I I agree, right? But say, for example,
(99:11) you've got massive DSA energy and
(99:13) excitement for um some sort of Medicaid
(99:16) bill in a specific state. Should DNC
(99:18) refuse to work with them?
(99:21) >> There there's no place where they have
(99:23) energy for something that's more that's
(99:25) popular with the entire base that
(99:26) Democrats don't have more energy for. So
(99:28) that's not even a but it's almost
(99:30) ontologically baked into what I consider
(99:32) these DSA people to be which is like a
(99:33) very niche political movement that's
(99:34) just driven by online people that don't
(99:36) really care much about exercising
(99:38) political power in the real world
(99:41) >> or aren't able to do it at least
(99:42) effectively at this point like what's
(99:45) >> the DSA is definitely interested in
(99:46) having political power like
(99:48) >> yeah they are about it but that's
(99:49) something the online figures it's hard
(99:50) to tell sometimes but um the like the
(99:52) greatest example of this would be um
(99:54) every single time a DSA person gives
(99:56) like a crazy idea like I want police
(99:58) abolition or I want whatever else.
(99:59) Whenever you finally get them to sit
(100:02) down and like spell out their beliefs or
(100:03) their views, they their beliefs end up
(100:05) becoming like just milktoast Democratic
(100:07) party positions like, "Oh, I think that
(100:08) we should reduce recidividism and
(100:10) provide more economic opportunities and
(100:11) blah blah blah." And it's like, "Okay,
(100:12) that's great. This is a normal
(100:12) Democratic party position. I don't know
(100:13) why you're trying to claim it as like a
(100:15) special DSA position."
(100:16) >> Yeah. So, it feels like essentially
(100:18) you're making like an ask of liberal
(100:19) content creators. Um, the issue that I
(100:21) kind of see with it is that most liberal
(100:23) content creators are going to be
(100:23) careerists in the way that most liberals
(100:25) are careerists. Um, and the reality is
(100:27) that What you mean by careerist?
(100:28) >> They're more focused on their career
(100:30) within politics than their mission of
(100:32) politics. Does that make sense?
(100:33) >> So a career in politics as a politician
(100:35) is fine. I want to work with a careerist
(100:37) because their goal should what?
(100:39) >> Or as a pundit like they're just they
(100:41) are focused on their career versus
(100:44) >> sure for a pundit it's it's that's that
(100:45) would be different. It depends on what
(100:46) they see their role I guess as being.
(100:47) But like for a politician I want them to
(100:49) try to win re-election. So I hope
(100:50) they're doing things that are popular
(100:51) with their base and
(100:52) >> Sure. So, for example, in the case of
(100:54) the DNC McMoral, right, I would prefer
(100:56) that there were principalists more than
(100:58) careers. I wish that Stevens would have
(100:59) recognized that she was a dead horse in
(101:01) the water in a lot of ways and stepped
(101:03) out and gotten
(101:03) >> I don't know how you're getting this
(101:04) idea. McMar never pulled that well. I
(101:06) don't know where this idea that it was
(101:07) so obvious like neck and neck with
(101:10) Stevens for quite a quite a number of
(101:12) like quite a bit. She was generally
(101:14) trending better, especially in younger
(101:15) voters. Um, she was quite popular as
(101:17) well with older women specifically.
(101:21) I would have to go back and check the
(101:22) polling data on that. But my
(101:23) understanding is Haley Stevens was
(101:24) pretty far ahead for the vast majority
(101:26) of the time or maybe she just dropped up
(101:28) really hard at the end but
(101:29) >> for the vast majority and then as
(101:30) McMurro started getting into it because
(101:31) she was a brand new candidate. One of
(101:33) the things that was so notable about
(101:34) McMurro is that she was so new and such
(101:36) a breakout in the space and she did so
(101:38) she blew up so quickly right that meant
(101:40) that there was a lot of energy whereas
(101:42) Stevens was really floundering she had a
(101:44) lot of like institutional backing. It's
(101:45) it's really hard to say that when
(101:47) Stevens beat McMaro in the primary,
(101:50) right? Like she won the primary against
(101:52) McMaro like she lost.
(101:53) >> What was the funding difference? El
(101:57) to me when you say well McMaro would
(101:59) have won. I don't see evidence that
(102:01) that's I like McMora more. I do. I like
(102:04) McMo. I agree with that. But like I'm
(102:06) just not sure if it was like so clear
(102:07) that she would have been a much better
(102:09) candidate. She fell really really hard.
(102:11) >> I'll hedge it more. It's not super clear
(102:12) to me. What I will say is look at the
(102:14) spending differences in packs between
(102:16) Steven Zik Mcmorro. The fact that
(102:17) McMmorro did so successfully despite the
(102:19) massive difference in spending, for
(102:21) example, and institutional support says
(102:23) something, right? There was a large push
(102:25) internally to pivot towards McMoral that
(102:27) was basically entirely resisted because
(102:29) the institutionalists had better
(102:31) relationships with Stevens, right? Um,
(102:33) and this to me is in many ways kind of
(102:37) somewhat of a demonstration of like the
(102:38) careerism, right? Like so for example,
(102:40) they're going to try to go with what has
(102:42) been like consistently predictive
(102:43) because they want their career to be
(102:45) further for forwarded. This is why, for
(102:46) example, in the liberal space, it is
(102:48) notorious that everyone is constantly
(102:50) stealing credit of each other. Political
(102:51) staffers never really want to stick
(102:53) their neck out for ideas until the ideas
(102:54) are successful and then suddenly it's
(102:56) all their ideas. Which is why, for
(102:57) example, a meritocracy often isn't
(102:59) happening, at least in the new media
(103:00) space because nobody wants to give
(103:02) credit to the people who are the most
(103:03) talented and youngest because they don't
(103:05) have the extensive resume and everyone
(103:06) is career fixated. So, I as a staffer
(103:09) want to be more successful. I don't
(103:10) care.
(103:11) >> Are we saying this doesn't happen on the
(103:12) Republican side though? Um, the
(103:14) Republicans are much better at being
(103:15) missionoriented. I think they're
(103:17) significantly much better at it.
(103:19) >> I guess my my I guess
(103:20) >> principalists of what I'm
(103:22) >> I disagree with you and I
(103:24) >> principalists.
(103:25) >> Yeah. But and by principal
(103:26) >> the neocon party that went to the party
(103:28) of not a wars went to the department of
(103:30) war.
(103:30) >> Hold on. Principal doesn't mean moral.
(103:32) By principle I just mean the principle
(103:33) might be the Republican party beating
(103:35) the Democratic party.
(103:37) >> Oh, so politically power oriented. You
(103:39) said
(103:40) >> sure whatever whatever you want to. I'm
(103:41) calling them the uh principalist just to
(103:43) def separate them between these two
(103:45) groups of people that these are made up
(103:47) categories that I'm making for the sake
(103:48) of this conversation. We can call it
(103:49) >> Yeah. I'm just trying to understand what
(103:50) you mean when you say it.
(103:52) >> Also, McMar was a a state senator. Like
(103:55) to to act as if she wasn't established
(103:57) is odd.
(103:58) >> Well, when I say established, I I don't
(104:00) know what to tell you. She was less
(104:02) integrated into all of the very old
(104:05) camps. There's a couple of camps that
(104:07) are all within like the Senate. There's
(104:08) a couple of there's a Schumer camp in
(104:10) the Senate and then there's like the
(104:11) alternative. There's a Hakeem Jeffre,
(104:12) there's a Barack Obama Biden camp,
(104:14) right? There's these specific camps and
(104:16) she was less connected into those
(104:18) things. She just was
(104:20) >> certainly, but was she less connected
(104:22) because the people who were in those
(104:24) camps thought she had less of a chance
(104:26) of winning is the question. I guess what
(104:28) I disagree with you is I I understand
(104:32) the idea of a careerist that you're
(104:34) putting forth, but from my perspective,
(104:37) and I understand I don't work with the
(104:38) staffers as much as you do, so fair
(104:40) enough. Grain of salt, right? I see a
(104:43) lot of pundits and a lot of influencers
(104:46) and a lot of people who are connected
(104:48) scared to say anything about the
(104:50) insurgent left because they don't want
(104:53) to upset the boat. rock uh rock the boat
(104:57) and upset their chances in case the the
(105:00) insurgent left becomes powerful. And so
(105:02) when we say the people are looking to
(105:04) preserve their careers, I see it as the
(105:07) people who are letting the insurgent
(105:09) left kind of run rampant in our party. I
(105:12) I I see it as kind of maybe the exact
(105:14) opposite, but maybe you have information
(105:15) I don't I don't know.
(105:16) >> Yeah. So I guess maybe to make this more
(105:18) clear when I'm talking about careerists
(105:20) versus principalists and we can call
(105:23) them something else if you want if that
(105:24) sounds like too morally good right in
(105:26) the case of the principalists all I mean
(105:28) is they are collectivized in pursuing a
(105:30) thing. So socialists are pursuing the
(105:33) dismantling of the American democratic
(105:34) status quo right and ending capitalism
(105:37) as we know it. Republicans are pursuing
(105:40) crushing woke is kind of like one of the
(105:42) biggest things that seems to unite them
(105:44) right now. Liberals seem to mostly be
(105:47) pursuing expanding their platforms and
(105:49) and enhancing their careers. In in my
(105:51) experience of working with these
(105:52) different categories and talking with
(105:54) them, right? Liberals don't ever want to
(105:56) take any chance on anything or rock the
(105:58) boat or step on any toes because they
(106:00) don't want their own career to be
(106:01) dismantled because in many ways it will
(106:03) be based on how the DNC system will
(106:07) treat these things. Like they're they're
(106:09) afraid of this and they're mostly afraid
(106:10) of their career being lost rather than
(106:12) like
(106:12) >> Sure. Okay. So, I think I kind of I
(106:14) think I kind of sort of agree with you.
(106:15) Um, but I'm going to go back to my other
(106:17) thing where I agree that this is
(106:19) happening, but I think the issue is one
(106:20) of the environment that's been fostered
(106:22) by both sides in that I do agree with
(106:24) what you're saying, but I would argue
(106:26) that on the Republican side, those
(106:27) people are also careerists. It just so
(106:30) happens that the Republican movement in
(106:32) this country has done a spectacular job
(106:35) of aligning careerist with what you're
(106:38) calling principalist. So if you want to
(106:40) have a career in anything relating to
(106:41) Republican politics, you got to be a
(106:42) Trump fan because as soon as you're not,
(106:44) nobody's going to want to work with you.
(106:45) Everybody's going to start shooting on
(106:46) you. Trump's going to hate you. Like
(106:47) you're done. Whereas on the Democratic
(106:49) side, we don't have that same alignment
(106:51) between those two things. So then they
(106:52) can start to to drift. I talked to uh I
(106:55) talked to Dennis Porter yesterday who's
(106:57) really involved.
(106:58) >> We love Dennis and he loves TVA, by the
(107:00) way.
(107:02) >> Yeah, he is. That's how he uh that's how
(107:03) he got a uh figured out who I was. So
(107:06) great connection there. Yes. But like um
(107:09) he he basically told me that he was at a
(107:12) I believe it was a DNC event and he was
(107:14) talking to one of the the the older
(107:17) women there and
(107:18) >> the DCC. Yeah.
(107:19) >> Asked, hey, are you a liberal? And she
(107:21) was like, "Well, I don't really know if
(107:22) I'm a liberal or not." And then he went
(107:25) through some some policies, right? And
(107:27) did do you believe in X? Do you believe
(107:29) in Y? Do you believe in Z? And she,
(107:31) well, yeah, I do. Well, and he's like,
(107:34) well, you're a liberal then. But she was
(107:36) so kind of hesitant to call herself a
(107:39) liberal because it's not in vogue in the
(107:42) Democratic party to be too moderate or
(107:45) too liberal. Look at all the messaging
(107:46) that anyone puts out there when it comes
(107:48) to politicians. They're like, I'm not a
(107:50) I'm not like one of those East Coast
(107:52) elites, right? I will get to the things
(107:54) done. And I think that that's uh that's
(107:57) setting us up for failure long term,
(107:59) right? Like when your best play as a
(108:01) Democratic politician is to run against
(108:03) the Democratic establishment in too many
(108:06) seats, that's that I even in cobalt blue
(108:10) districts, that's the play. Not just in
(108:13) purple states, not just in red states,
(108:14) you need to be popular everywhere. It's
(108:16) it's a problem and we have to fix it
(108:19) because it's unsustainable.
(108:20) >> Sure. So, let me give you an example of
(108:22) the difference of the apparatus and
(108:24) systems between like Republicans versus
(108:26) >> Let me give you an example.
(108:28) >> Okay, go ahead. Oh, sorry. I'm done. I'm
(108:29) just going to go.
(108:31) >> Um, so, uh, Camp Callout, uh, Mercedes
(108:35) Chandler, friend of the stream. I'm sure
(108:37) you you remember Mercedes. You guys both
(108:39) know her. Um, she was MAGA before she
(108:42) realized that they're stupid and
(108:43) swapped, right? As she got like more
(108:44) politically educated, she swapped sides
(108:46) and she's now a liberal. Um, amazing,
(108:49) incred like one of the most talented
(108:51) shorts content creators I've ever
(108:53) experienced. She just has a mind for
(108:55) verality like I've never seen. just give
(108:57) her anything. Like, we're doing the, you
(108:59) know, by the way, go to the Michigan uh
(109:01) Detroit canvasing program. We'll be
(109:03) there. I'll be in my Tifa cosplay, which
(109:05) you guys paid for. Okay, but plug plug
(109:07) plug plug plug. Make sure Destiny put
(109:09) your link for subscribing to your guys'
(109:11) canvasing program in your chat like
(109:12) right now. Do it. Um, so
(109:14) >> digital ground.org/midterms.
(109:16) >> There you go. And join Takeback America.
(109:18) Um, okay. So, she I can just give her
(109:21) like the most boring [ __ ] which is like
(109:23) canvasing. I'm sorry. Canvasing not
(109:24) interesting in shorts media. It's just
(109:26) not. Nobody wants to watch people canvas
(109:27) obviously. I could give that to her and
(109:29) she will just come up with like 18
(109:31) ideas. I mean like what if we did it
(109:33) like this and I'm like yes that is so
(109:36) genius. She started on the ma side and
(109:38) she grew her platform to a million
(109:40) really really quickly because she's
(109:42) really [ __ ] good at what she does.
(109:44) And what happened is by the time she had
(109:45) 200k she was pulled into all of the
(109:48) Republican infrastructure. They were
(109:50) funneling money in behind her and she
(109:51) was getting into the biggest rooms.
(109:54) Convert this now to the liberal side. It
(109:56) is damn near impossible to get funding
(109:58) for successful programs. My I I ran a
(110:00) program for like uh helping like get
(110:02) like uh RNC stuff out like clips out and
(110:04) stuff. I got like 7 million views in 5
(110:07) days and I nobody want nobody wants to
(110:10) get behind it because it's not tried and
(110:12) true. The reality of like Democratic
(110:14) funders and Democratic establishment is
(110:16) that they want to get behind things that
(110:17) are tried and true and they never ever
(110:18) want to try new things. are extremely
(110:19) riskaverse where and they never pull the
(110:22) most talented people up to the top rooms
(110:24) and they definitely don't [ __ ] listen
(110:25) to them, right? What they do is they
(110:27) insist, well, I'm a Yale Harvard, so
(110:29) like I'm kind of smart and new media is
(110:31) kind of simple and easy. So, if I just
(110:33) like talk to creators and have a couple
(110:34) focus groups, I'll understand a media
(110:36) enough so that I can run it. And they
(110:38) never pull the talented people into the
(110:39) rooms to just like let them do what
(110:41) they're good at. and they definitely
(110:42) don't take risks on them in a way that
(110:44) like the reality is that like
(110:46) Republicans do take financial risk, the
(110:48) funders and donors and the institutions
(110:50) that guide these things. And when I'm
(110:51) calling it institutions, just so it's
(110:52) clear, it's all like muddier and and
(110:54) less like it's all more human than
(110:56) people think that it is, right? But the
(110:57) institutions were willing to get in
(110:59) behind and like back people like Charlie
(111:01) Kirk, right? They were willing to back
(111:02) people like Mercedes before she popped
(111:04) off. Mercedes now has a million subs on
(111:07) uh on Instagram again as a liberal.
(111:09) rebuilt from zero to a million and I
(111:11) can't get her in a room with a senator.
(111:13) What? How? How is that possible? How is
(111:16) that [ __ ] possible? I can't get any
(111:18) funding behind her. I can't get any
(111:19) funding to just fly creators out to go
(111:21) to a single event where if I fly 10
(111:23) creators out, I will get 45 million
(111:25) views. I can just guarantee it and I
(111:27) can't get the funding for this. And the
(111:28) reality of why this is is because these
(111:30) establishments are riskaverse
(111:32) careerists. And what careerists think
(111:34) about is level of education and proof of
(111:36) resume. They don't want to risk it on
(111:37) new ideas. And that is why they are so
(111:40) far behind Republicans right now. That
(111:42) is just the reality of the institution
(111:44) and I don't know how to fix it. And the
(111:45) DSA is not doing that. They are so
(111:47) reflexive and reactive. They are good at
(111:49) this. Okay. Sorry.
(111:51) >> How is the DSA not doing it? I feel like
(111:53) the DSA has been throwing huge
(111:54) fundraising efforts behind sometimes the
(111:56) worst Oh, I thought you said they aren't
(111:57) doing it. Yeah, they are doing it.
(111:58) >> I would say they are. They're really
(111:59) good at new media. Like they're
(112:01) excellent at it.
(112:02) >> Well, okay. Sure.
(112:03) >> They are.
(112:05) >> I No, it's not new media. They're just
(112:07) they're just good at constantly
(112:08) suventically supporting their side and
(112:09) then to a lot of people that looks like
(112:11) they're good at new media but it's just
(112:13) because they can create these
(112:14) impressions that like I mean look at
(112:16) like what you know Wick is saying and
(112:17) you can ask
(112:18) >> media though.
(112:18) >> No no no they come up with like viral
(112:20) moments for for Zoron at the like right
(112:22) perfect time and they drop the clips in
(112:23) the perfect time like one example of Oaf
(112:25) is they keep on having these clips that
(112:27) are [ __ ] awesome about him but they
(112:28) need to go through like two to three
(112:29) reviews before they drop it so by the
(112:31) time it drops the viral moment's over
(112:33) boys like what are we doing? Whereas the
(112:34) mum dani also they get [ __ ] out. It's
(112:36) like the new
(112:37) >> Yeah. Because nobody who's opposing mom
(112:38) donnie? Nobody. He can set he can do
(112:40) whatever he wants and talk about
(112:41) whatever he wants and then it's like
(112:42) awesome and bass because it's him and
(112:44) nobody's really in opposition to him.
(112:45) Whereas for Oaf, like even though he is
(112:47) having killer moments in these debates
(112:48) and everything, like you don't have a
(112:49) whole bunch of people that are out there
(112:50) trying to clip him for his epic moments
(112:52) and then make them go viral over and
(112:53) over and over and over and over again
(112:54) like they do for MAGA or like they do
(112:56) for these far lefty people because I
(112:57) don't think again people just don't see
(112:58) themselves as activists for their side
(113:01) the same way that everybody on the
(113:02) Republican side and everybody on the
(113:03) left lefty side sees themselves as
(113:05) activist. Another really quick, another
(113:07) really quick, another really quick good
(113:09) example is you saw how insane the whole
(113:12) weight of the world on the left came
(113:14) down on chorus of the lefties of the DSA
(113:16) types. What were there was so many big
(113:18) stories published about how um it might
(113:21) have included Banani, but I'm pretty
(113:22) sure Styer was paying I think it was
(113:24) hundreds of thousands of dollars to
(113:25) lefty influencers and ship. Nobody gave
(113:27) a [ __ ] Nobody reporter, nobody cared.
(113:28) They was like, "Oh, okay. That was it."
(113:29) But like the lefties have that media
(113:31) thing where they can fixate and obsess
(113:32) over a story and then make everybody
(113:34) care about it. And
(113:35) >> that's kind of my point that I'm saying
(113:37) is that like chorus was come down on so
(113:39) hard because I think that like the
(113:40) leftists do have like an integrated new
(113:42) media system that is effective and they
(113:43) get the funding behind the Clippers and
(113:44) they get out there really really really
(113:46) quick. Whereas the reality of the of
(113:48) like the more institutional is while I
(113:49) agree that they're fighting on two
(113:50) battlegrounds, they're just not doing it
(113:52) all. Like they're just not doing it at
(113:54) all which is why we're still failing.
(113:56) Nobody even knows the good [ __ ] that
(113:57) Biden did in his presidency. Nobody
(113:59) knows. They have no idea.
(114:00) >> Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I guess
(114:01) there's when I think of like new media
(114:02) and then wake, I'll be done. Sorry. When
(114:04) I think when I think of new media or
(114:06) like it sounds like a media thing, but
(114:07) on the Republican side, it's not they're
(114:09) not working this way because it's
(114:10) they're doing just good media. It's
(114:12) because every single person who's on
(114:16) that side understands the mission. They
(114:18) know that if they start uh
(114:20) sickopantically, you know, drinking off
(114:22) their politicians, their politicians
(114:23) aren't going to step out and like
(114:24) disavow them because somebody said
(114:25) something too extreme, right? They know
(114:27) that like, you know, I make fun of him
(114:28) for being because I do think the
(114:29) political strategy is kind of dumb. But
(114:31) there's a reason why it wasn't just
(114:32) Assan. I think Emma Vigilant and I think
(114:35) Kyle Kolinsky
(114:37) mispronounce her name. Okay, she's
(114:39) >> she's one of the most [ __ ] pieces of
(114:41) [ __ ] in the universe. We would be so
(114:42) much better off without people like this
(114:43) in existence. But um the um the these
(114:46) people were literally criticizing Abdul
(114:49) I think it actually met Dani where they
(114:52) were like I can't believe that he's
(114:53) throwing Hassan [ __ ] under the bus like
(114:55) this and it's like what the [ __ ] But
(114:56) it's like it's because their
(114:58) understanding of political power is like
(114:59) on the right they would never do that.
(115:00) The right never throws their own figures
(115:02) under the bus ever. So when we look at
(115:04) like what works in new media like well
(115:06) these guys have the freedom. This is why
(115:08) I say riskless. And maybe riskless isn't
(115:10) the right term because you're trying to
(115:12) say that it's not really riskless. And
(115:14) you're right, but what what I just mean
(115:15) is that like it's always a one-front
(115:17) fight. You're always fighting one side
(115:18) with the understanding that everybody on
(115:20) your side, right? You remember the
(115:21) conversation I had with said not
(115:23) mentioned like media figure where you
(115:25) know I asked him like point blank. I was
(115:27) like, "Do you see yourself as like
(115:28) having any kind of like responsibility
(115:29) on the Democrats?" And his response was,
(115:30) "No, I just kind of put stuff out there.
(115:32) People take it as it is." And I'm like,
(115:33) Jesus. Do you think like Sean Hannity
(115:35) would have answered like that?
(115:36) >> No. But I think that part of the beauty
(115:38) and the lameness of liberals is that a
(115:39) lot of them value, for example, like the
(115:41) fact that they're like, I get to decide
(115:42) my own thing and you know, I weigh the
(115:44) fact
(115:44) >> that's fine, but it doesn't win
(115:45) elections. It's not that's not a good
(115:46) exercise of political power.
(115:47) >> But that's that's to my argument of
(115:48) saying I agree that there's so there's
(115:50) two things liberals are fighting on two
(115:51) fronts and they have zero infrastructure
(115:53) for creator programs. They have zero.
(115:54) And when they do come up with creative
(115:56) programs, I'm sorry, as somebody who's
(115:57) advised and talked to and consulted on a
(115:59) lot of them, they're [ __ ] dog [ __ ]
(116:01) because they're bad at thinking about
(116:03) incentive structures of people and
(116:05) building systems that quickly expedite
(116:06) them because they are constantly
(116:08) constantly fearful. And I agree that
(116:10) part of the fear is warranted. The issue
(116:12) is that it is also outblown.
(116:16) >> There it is definitely outblown. Like
(116:18) the reality is like
(116:19) >> bring it back. Sorry. I mean, I would
(116:20) argue at this point, I think it's pretty
(116:21) undeniable that like Hassan has had a
(116:23) massively detrimental impact on Elsa.
(116:25) Well, maybe not massively, but he's had
(116:26) a outsized detrimental impact on Elsa's
(116:28) campaign. And I I doubt he brought any
(116:30) new voters. I doubt there's anybody in
(116:31) Michigan like would I really vote for
(116:32) Elsa? Like could have done the exact
(116:33) same thing at home and it would have the
(116:35) same effect now
(116:36) >> has a team behind him and he has a group
(116:38) of psychoans
(116:41) I think is the word
(116:43) >> that are are just basically promoting
(116:45) him and attacking anyone who attacks
(116:47) him. There was one clip I have seen of
(116:51) John Oaf's debate last night. I've seen
(116:53) one clip. It went viral pretty much
(116:55) immediately. I saw it in a couple
(116:57) spaces. It was his answer about Israel
(117:00) and Palestine. And the reason I saw it
(117:03) was because a lot of people on the left
(117:06) were excoriating it, saying this is this
(117:09) needs to change. He can't do this. This
(117:11) is terrible. How this answer is not
(117:13) presidential. All these things. Um,
(117:17) if we want a better
(117:20) virality for Democratic talking points,
(117:23) Democratic senators and things like
(117:24) that,
(117:25) >> a lot of it we can't wait for the DNC to
(117:28) do it. I think we got to just got to do
(117:30) it ourselves.
(117:31) >> I agree. Look,
(117:34) >> I agree. I I'm doing it. I'm trying to.
(117:36) Right. But the issue is again, even
(117:38) pundits on our side are careerists,
(117:40) right? Liberals are just more careerist.
(117:42) So like for me to get a liberal to work
(117:44) with me on things like destiny is
(117:45) actually destiny is the rarity in the
(117:47) liberal space. Like if you go we're
(117:49) doing this type of program and we want
(117:51) to do like okay so right now we're doing
(117:52) a uh Michigan and like general
(117:55) registration program because so many
(117:56) people's ballots are getting like booted
(117:57) off and their registrations are changing
(117:59) right so we're doing this massive thing.
(118:00) It's actually really hard to get
(118:01) liberals to do that unless you pay them.
(118:03) They're just not really going to do it
(118:04) for free. Stevens community will they're
(118:06) one of the rare ones where if you like
(118:07) give them a canvasing program they'll
(118:09) get behind it and fund it. That is the
(118:10) rarity. is not the norm. And this isn't
(118:12) to sit here and say, so all these
(118:13) liberals are bad people, right? I think
(118:15) that this is just like a nature of
(118:16) liberalism. But we have to recognize
(118:17) that as a result of this careerism and
(118:19) the fact that like everyone is just
(118:21) like, well, how can this help my career?
(118:22) Does this collab help my career?
(118:24) Nobody's interested, for example, in
(118:26) cutting out the DSA because it just
(118:28) means a loss of to potential viewers
(118:29) that they have and uh bridge burning and
(118:32) harassment that they don't want to have.
(118:34) And if all they care about is their
(118:35) platform being successful,
(118:38) >> why would they ever risk it? especially
(118:39) if they're not agree principalists.
(118:42) >> Okay, maybe actually maybe we agree on
(118:43) everything actually. It's just a matter
(118:44) of the way that we're phrasing like I
(118:45) don't disagree with you at all. Like in
(118:47) in a perfect world this like when I'm
(118:49) talking about this inorganic media
(118:51) system like in a way it's inorganic but
(118:53) in another way it's very organic. The
(118:55) inorganic part was like this
(118:56) establishing of the system and then some
(118:59) of the actors that are conscientious of
(119:01) it but the vast majority of people just
(119:03) participate in an organic matter because
(119:05) of how inorganic the system was set up.
(119:08) So, like in how many token black or
(119:10) women creators are posting videos on X
(119:12) talking about like how bad the
(119:13) Democratic party is and it's like the I
(119:16) think there are genuinely people doing
(119:17) that like they're real people and they
(119:18) do it. But like Elon Musk literally on
(119:21) the platform that he [ __ ] bought by
(119:24) the way that he purchased he was
(119:26) retweeting white nationalist accounts
(119:28) and extremist accounts and
(119:28) anti-democratic accounts and then he
(119:30) added a creator fund that paid money
(119:32) based on your impressions. So, it's
(119:34) like, well, [ __ ] if I know there's a
(119:36) message that wants to be heard, and I
(119:37) know I'm a certain type of person that
(119:38) could give this message, and I know I
(119:39) get paid for it, then you get all this
(119:40) organic engagement, but the system
(119:42) itself is anything but organic, right?
(119:44) It is heavily designed to favor one
(119:46) side. And Democrats don't have that
(119:48) system. So, I guess like when you say
(119:50) things like Democrats like it's not
(119:51) going to work because Democrats are so
(119:52) risk averse, they won't throw their
(119:53) weight behind things. I'm agreeing with
(119:55) you. I guess I'm just agreeing with you
(119:56) on like another layer where it's like
(120:00) you're talking about like, you know,
(120:01) you're you have a shortage on potato
(120:02) vitamins. you need to eat more potatoes.
(120:04) And I'm like, people do need to eat more
(120:06) potatoes, but the potatoes the
(120:07) Republicans are giving us are all filled
(120:08) with nails. And then you're like, we
(120:09) need to eat the potatoes. And I'm like,
(120:10) we need to take the nails out. And we're
(120:12) both correct.
(120:14) >> I'm trying to say we need to grow.
(120:16) >> We can't do that. That's impossible
(120:16) though, unless you start a new political
(120:18) party. That's the big Maybe that's a big
(120:19) disagreement.
(120:20) >> The Republicans were able to exercise
(120:21) power this way because people give Trump
(120:22) so much credit, but once Trump won the
(120:24) Republican party, he inherited the
(120:25) entire apparatus of the Republican
(120:28) party. Right.
(120:29) >> Yes.
(120:29) >> And that's that's not by accident. like
(120:31) Trump who was a political [ __ ] and he
(120:32) is and the people who surrounded
(120:33) themselves especially now are political
(120:34) retards. I legitimately I do not think
(120:36) that Trump was lying when he was talking
(120:38) about project 2025. I don't think he had
(120:40) any [ __ ] idea what that was or what
(120:41) it was about. But he has a whole thing
(120:43) working behind him the table to kind of
(120:44) like push the policies onto him and kind
(120:46) of massage him and work with it and
(120:47) everything else. Democrats don't have
(120:48) anything like that.
(120:48) >> Trump is at his heart is an influencer
(120:51) and so he his incentives to grow his
(120:54) brand was co-opted by the Republican
(120:58) party. They thought they could make a
(120:59) deal with the devil, like he's going to
(121:00) act because they have the systems in
(121:02) place to do it. It's going to help us
(121:03) too. And uh well, that didn't work out
(121:06) for them, but it worked out great for
(121:08) Trump. And now again, that engine uh
(121:11) that he has built is fueling itself,
(121:14) right? It's fueling itself. And he built
(121:16) it
(121:16) >> Wait, what do you mean it didn't work
(121:17) out for them?
(121:18) >> For uh uh for the the principled
(121:21) conservatives in the Republican party
(121:22) that thought they can control Trump,
(121:24) they can't.
(121:25) >> Sure. Even even when the principal
(121:26) people aren't necessarily getting their
(121:28) way 100% because obviously there's a lot
(121:29) that disagree with them. Like I said,
(121:30) look at project 25 2025. Half of this
(121:32) has been implemented so far so kind of
(121:34) getting their way.
(121:34) >> Harness it. Yes. Sure. Right. Yeah. I I
(121:37) I don't disagree.
(121:38) >> I think I I guess
(121:40) >> Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off.
(121:41) >> No, you're fine. I guess it's it's just
(121:43) a matter of we got to just keep pushing
(121:48) these things and getting better at it
(121:51) and sounding the alarm again and again
(121:54) till people hear us. Now I am seeing
(121:57) positive signs in this regard. Right,
(122:01) Dennis, like I said, he's going to go
(122:03) talk to the DNC people from the the
(122:05) stuff we talked about uh uh yesterday.
(122:07) Okay. I don't know if it'll do anything,
(122:08) but it's a a connection that we didn't
(122:10) have before that we can get information
(122:12) and communicate.
(122:13) >> You had it the whole time, [ __ ]
(122:15) Hello. The [ __ ] we talking about? You
(122:17) had it the whole goddamn [ __ ] time.
(122:19) That's what I'm trying to say. Okay,
(122:21) that's the summation of my position is
(122:23) are are is the damage that leftist is
(122:25) causing real? Yes, obviously. Somebody's
(122:29) life was destroyed, okay, by both
(122:30) liberals and leftists. You will never
(122:32) ever catch me saying that the damage
(122:34) isn't real. like it. I personally fully
(122:37) understand it, right? But I'm also
(122:39) saying there is a lot more juice to
(122:41) squeeze with the liberal strategy. And I
(122:43) think liberals are failing in a couple
(122:45) of ways, but one of the dominant ways
(122:47) that liberals have control over, a lot
(122:50) of control over, is the fact that they
(122:52) are failing because people aren't
(122:54) inspired by them. They think that
(122:56) they're boring, disconnected, social
(122:58) like elitist, coastal elitist
(123:00) careerists, right? And I think we need
(123:02) to push first and foremost is
(123:04) >> again hold I just I understand why
(123:06) you're saying that but that's just not
(123:07) true. It's not because people Nick
(123:08) Shirley is clinically [ __ ] and he
(123:11) became a hero on the right. Why? Because
(123:13) of how much these people were pushing
(123:14) him.
(123:15) >> The right is not the same. The issue is
(123:16) like
(123:16) >> I think we're all the same. We're all
(123:18) human beings. We're all the same.
(123:19) >> We're all equal under the eyes of the
(123:20) Lord. But the issue is that the reason
(123:21) >> No, the eyes I'm saying look how much
(123:23) credit Hassan gets for literally
(123:24) inventing the idea of streaming gaming
(123:26) and politics and everything else. Right.
(123:28) It's be but that's none of that is true.
(123:30) It's just because they push that idea so
(123:31) hard they've gotten people to buy it.
(123:32) Same thing with the Republicans how they
(123:33) push their
(123:33) >> ideas. Why did people both inorganically
(123:35) and most importantly organically fallen
(123:37) behind certain types of people because
(123:39) they have a certain type of emotion that
(123:40) appeals to them. I agree that Nick
(123:42) Shirley is [ __ ] and terrible. Nick
(123:43) Shirley is actually a better example of
(123:44) an inorganic push. Actually, he was
(123:46) absolutely picked up and dropped off and
(123:48) the only reason he's doing so well is
(123:50) because he was pushed so hard by the top
(123:52) leaders on the Republican side. But
(123:53) again, the thing that works for
(123:55) Republicans doesn't mean that it is the
(123:56) same win condition for liberals, right?
(123:58) It isn't. Right? If I think, for
(124:00) example, if um like Nick Shirley,
(124:04) probably the reason the right likes them
(124:05) so much is they see themselves in him.
(124:06) I'm not I'm not ironically not joking.
(124:08) They're probably like, "This guy's just
(124:09) like me." Uh, yay. Um whereas I think
(124:12) for example, if liberals were able to
(124:14) out compete the cancer, if they were
(124:16) able to be more successful in new media
(124:18) organically, not just, and this isn't
(124:20) just they can't do it because the left
(124:23) will attack them, right? if they had
(124:24) more motion, right, liberals would stop
(124:27) co consuming carcinogens, right? And the
(124:29) reason why so many liberals are
(124:31) consuming carcinogens and leaning on the
(124:33) DSA is because the DSA has motion,
(124:35) right? And so what we have to figure out
(124:36) is both inorganic, which is the
(124:39) infrastructure.
(124:40) >> I understand what you're saying, but I
(124:41) just feel like a lot of things are
(124:42) saying are lit, I would say, are
(124:43) evidence of being like I think I think
(124:46) you think things that I don't think are
(124:47) true because of the marketing forces
(124:49) that I'm saying. Like when you say for
(124:50) instance like the DSA is like successful
(124:52) like are they like how long has this
(124:54) organ organization existed? How many
(124:56) seats do they have to show for it? Like
(124:58) >> successful for their influencers like
(125:00) Hassan is gaining influence and power
(125:02) well until until recently but he was on
(125:05) the up and up for a while.
(125:06) >> They've successfully made liberal learn
(125:08) but that has been to the detriment of
(125:10) Democrats. Right.
(125:11) >> Sure. But again, like how like the but
(125:13) the main way I think these people are
(125:15) achieving decent levels of success are
(125:17) through not because they're cool and hip
(125:19) and awesome, but because they have
(125:20) incredibly insulated environments that
(125:22) understand their political mission. Like
(125:24) one of the biggest reasons why
(125:26) >> as well, right? No, it's not about like
(125:28) one of one of the biggest things that
(125:30) Grant one of the things that
(125:33) he is he also had to run as [ __ ]
(125:35) Cuomo which was stupid from the
(125:36) Democrats. But um the like if if Hassan
(125:38) didn't have the ability, okay, not to
(125:40) make about me, but to keep me banned
(125:41) from Twitch, I think his presence on
(125:42) that platform and the way that people
(125:44) treat him would be a lot different. And
(125:45) I think there's a reason why if he
(125:46) thinks I'm showing up to an event or
(125:47) somebody else showing up event, he's
(125:48) going to [ __ ] call the cops on him.
(125:49) He's never done this for like a
(125:50) conservative or he doesn't even fight
(125:51) with conservatives, right? These people
(125:53) are, they have the impression of looking
(125:54) or being a certain way, but it's because
(125:56) they're selling that impression to
(125:58) people. He's got a good publicist that's
(125:59) getting him interviews where he can
(126:00) shove his sweaty armpit bathtub pictures
(126:02) into every [ __ ] random magazine and
(126:04) talk about how sexy and cool he is or
(126:05) whatever, and that's it. But like in
(126:07) another world where it's not like where
(126:10) he doesn't have so much um the the so
(126:14) many people that are all on the same
(126:15) team working together, and I think
(126:16) you're seeing this now with the
(126:17) Republican attacks, the second he's
(126:19) exposed to an adversarial environment,
(126:20) he completely collapses. Nobody likes
(126:22) him in Michigan, which is the place
(126:23) where he arguably was should have had
(126:24) some of the most important impact. He
(126:25) didn't help. Hong win. She got [ __ ]
(126:27) crushed. The only elections that Hassan
(126:29) was a part of that were successful were
(126:31) the um were the New York City ones,
(126:33) which weren't even really, I'll say,
(126:34) weren't even really DSA victories. They
(126:36) were Mundani victories because Mandani
(126:37) himself is like a very charismatic guy.
(126:39) Look at what happened in his home state
(126:40) when the DSA [ __ ] got swept across
(126:41) the entire state. He said it was a
(126:42) homopascist state and he wanted to leave
(126:44) because he hated all of California
(126:45) because the people got crushed there. So
(126:47) like they they're good at selling this
(126:48) impression of like, oh, they've got
(126:49) motion. They got this. No, they don't.
(126:50) They have the same sycopant thing that
(126:52) the right does which gives it the
(126:53) appearance of having motion. But in
(126:54) terms of translating that to political
(126:55) power, they really don't have much of
(126:57) anything. All they're doing is just
(126:58) cutting into the the Democrats and then
(126:59) the Republicans are using them to to
(127:00) bury the Democrats under Democrats
(127:02) inability to message on their own.
(127:03) >> Sure. But the Republicans had enough mo
(127:05) motion that the Senate, the House, and
(127:06) the executive branch, right? So like
(127:08) they had
(127:08) >> Republicans have motion. They've got
(127:09) people. They've got tons of voters. Half
(127:10) the country are Republicans.
(127:11) >> But as you said, this is both organic
(127:13) and inorganic. And so it seems like you
(127:15) and I are wholly aligned on the
(127:17) inorganic side that the the the liberal
(127:19) whatever category that is needs to have
(127:21) significantly better infrastructure and
(127:23) it does not have it in the way that the
(127:25) DSA or Republicans have right now. I
(127:27) think we all agree on that side. The
(127:29) part that we're kind of quibbling over
(127:30) is what is the cause of the organic
(127:33) problem and how do we squeeze more juice
(127:36) out of essentially the organic side for
(127:38) liberals. Right? And my argument would
(127:40) basically be that while I agree with you
(127:43) that part of the way that we might
(127:44) squeeze this is having our little white
(127:46) blood cells going and attacking the DSA
(127:47) and highlighting the issues. I think
(127:48) that that is actually important strategy
(127:50) in the same way that they do to us and
(127:52) highlight problems with like liberal
(127:53) candidates, right? Another part of the
(127:55) strategy has to be that liberal
(127:56) candidates they themselves inspire and
(127:59) the way that they inspire is
(128:00) multifaceted. So, when I'm saying cool
(128:02) or an aesthetic, I'm not just saying
(128:03) like every single, you know, member of
(128:06) the Democratic caucus should start like
(128:08) painting their nails and like getting
(128:10) piercings. Obviously, what I'm trying to
(128:12) say is they need to understand how to
(128:14) have a comprehensive identity that
(128:16) people can identify with and get excited
(128:18) about, right? I agree.
(128:20) >> I agree with that. I agree that our only
(128:21) principal disagreement. I agree with
(128:22) that 100%. I'm just saying that that
(128:23) means nothing if you don't have a buyin
(128:25) from the other parts of your media
(128:27) apparatus as well. You have to have that
(128:28) buy in so that they're also pushing it.
(128:30) You can't do it on your arms.
(128:31) >> Both inorganic and organic buy in
(128:33) though. And
(128:33) >> the push initially is inorganic and you
(128:35) get the organic stuff. It comes in
(128:37) afterwards once you've started the
(128:38) inorganic push. But I don't think you
(128:39) can push because all the in what happens
(128:41) when we do things quote unquote
(128:42) organically and this has happened time
(128:44) and time again is we'll get something
(128:46) and it'll be and people like oh my god
(128:48) we figured out it works. And then it
(128:49) disappears and people are like oh [ __ ] I
(128:51) guess it stopped and nobody understands
(128:52) why. A really good example of this was
(128:54) like the walls like uh the calling
(128:56) Republicans weird and people like oh my
(128:57) god that was the key. We figured it out.
(128:58) But what happened was you just had a
(128:59) rare moment where everybody on the
(129:00) Democratic side was like, "Oh [ __ ] this
(129:01) is funny and it works." And then they
(129:02) kind of do it. But that was all organic,
(129:04) but because it was all organic, as soon
(129:06) as the next kind of topics came up, then
(129:07) it all just like fed it out again. And
(129:08) this happens over and over again with
(129:09) Democrats off of a really cool line and
(129:11) people like, "Oh my god, cool." And they
(129:12) come together organically and then it
(129:13) kind of disappears. But Republicans have
(129:15) this enforced inorganic environment and
(129:17) structure and they only have to push a
(129:18) little bit into it and it facilitates so
(129:20) much legitimate organic outrage and
(129:23) political movements and influencers and
(129:24) everything else.
(129:24) >> But it was in large part storeed by
(129:26) organic grassroots movement. TPUSA was
(129:28) organic and grassroots first before it
(129:30) had funders behind it. The issue is that
(129:32) the institution got in line really
(129:33) quickly. I actually would disagree. I
(129:35) think it's
(129:36) >> Well, but TP USA disappears and doesn't
(129:37) exist at all if there's not a Republican
(129:39) party ready to step in and support it as
(129:40) soon as it starts to take off the
(129:41) ground.
(129:42) >> What I'm saying is that you said I think
(129:43) it has to start inorganically first. I
(129:45) actually think it's the opposite. I
(129:46) think it has to start organically,
(129:47) right? So like I think
(129:49) >> No, no, hold on. The start was not TPOS.
(129:50) The start was the Republican party that
(129:52) was ready to support them as soon as
(129:53) they were ready to go without sleeping
(129:56) in like random apartments and stuff
(129:58) going and making content that went viral
(130:00) every single day and Republicans went,
(130:01) "Wait, we can use this." And then he
(130:03) said, "I can organize it, too." That was
(130:05) the aggressor that I'm describing.
(130:06) >> Yeah. But I'm saying there was an
(130:08) inorganic structure that was ready to
(130:09) receive him. And without that inorganic
(130:11) structure ready to receive him, his
(130:13) organic stuff would have been maybe a
(130:14) little bit cool, but then they
(130:15) eventually just disappear.
(130:16) >> You're both correct, right? You're both
(130:18) correct.
(130:19) >> Well, I I understand. But I'm saying
(130:20) what comes first. You have to create the
(130:21) inorganic acceleration cannon first
(130:24) before you start loading in the
(130:24) ammunition is what I'm saying because
(130:26) what happens
(130:26) >> I don't know if that's true. I I think
(130:27) what you need is you need to have
(130:29) somebody that is inspiring that people
(130:30) can get in behind and then the
(130:32) institution needs to reactively get in
(130:34) behind it. I think
(130:34) >> Mani doesn't work without the the the
(130:36) influencer space that was behind him
(130:39) ready to kind of push him forward.
(130:42) >> I actually don't think that's true.
(130:43) Mani's camp like the guy who ran Mani's
(130:45) campaign. I agree that he went against
(130:47) basically a dead horse. But mom Donnie
(130:49) has influence despite the fact that he
(130:51) basically had an easy primary because
(130:52) Cuomo was so terrible. Mam Donnie has
(130:55) reach well beyond just being the mayor
(130:57) of New York and or any of these things
(130:59) because he has
(131:00) >> because of this engine pushing
(131:02) >> but it's organic. A lot of it is organic
(131:04) that is now backed by an inorganic. It
(131:06) is it just is. Manny didn't get selected
(131:10) by the powers who be in the DSA. The DSA
(131:13) isn't coordinated enough for this. They
(131:15) actually aren't. What the DSA is really
(131:17) good at is being reactive, finding who's
(131:19) popping off well, and getting behind Cat
(131:21) Abuah, whatever her name was, was a
(131:24) really good example of this. But there
(131:26) are layers here and it's not just the
(131:28) DSA as an organization but there is a a
(131:31) set of influencers, podcasters,
(131:34) journalists and kind of true believers
(131:38) uh who are really invested in the new
(131:41) media space who have all kind of crown
(131:47) him their representative and they crown
(131:49) Abdul al-S as their representative as
(131:52) well.
(131:52) >> I would say I I would I would hedge you
(131:53) just carefully. I do think Mumani had I
(131:56) mean he had prior was it city council
(131:58) experience and he is he is he is an
(132:00) exceptionally he is he is charismatic
(132:01) yeah I don't know if like it would have
(132:03) worked necessarily without and the
(132:04) running against Cuomo definitely helped
(132:05) as well for sure but again I would say
(132:07) that I I feel like Manny might be more
(132:08) of like an outlier example here than the
(132:11) actual um than the thing itself because
(132:13) like I said even for the New York
(132:14) elections I feel like the big carry
(132:17) there wasn't necessarily the DSA it was
(132:19) mom Donnie like I think was more
(132:21) important than any DSA
(132:22) >> duel was really candidates he possibly
(132:25) could and they use this success and they
(132:27) are boosting the success as if Z we can
(132:30) beat the establishment on New York City
(132:33) when again if you look at it honestly
(132:37) Manny that day did worse than Spanberger
(132:40) did numbers-wise he won by less than
(132:44) spam
(132:44) >> okay this is true and I like to use this
(132:46) when I'm arguing against lefties but
(132:47) that vote was split three ways right
(132:50) >> yeah but it's a good one to when you're
(132:53) showing I like that. But
(132:54) >> let's talk about Abdul. Let's give it to
(132:55) Abdul as an example instead. Right.
(132:57) Okay. So, what happened with Abdul? So,
(132:59) there was He's
(133:00) >> Whether you like Abdul or not, he's also
(133:02) very charismatic. He's also got an
(133:04) interesting Yes, he is. Yes, he is. When
(133:06) you watch him react, I think he is. I
(133:08) think he is. I don't know if he's going
(133:10) to have a swing state appeal. I agree
(133:12) with you on that. But he is organic. He
(133:14) does appeal to his base. The issue is
(133:15) that his base is not all of Michigan.
(133:17) That's the problem that you
(133:18) >> organic. Oh, sure. Yeah. Well, but I
(133:19) mean the base is important, but I think
(133:21) I feel like his attitude stuff is like
(133:22) some of the stuff that is probably
(133:23) hurting him the most. But um
(133:26) >> it depend I guess we'll we'll see.
(133:27) Obviously I hope that Abdul is
(133:29) successful because we really need to
(133:31) have as many seats as possible, right?
(133:32) But I think Abdul is a good example of
(133:34) okay well let's say let's say if he
(133:36) wasn't even charismatic, right? Let's
(133:37) say I grant you that he wasn't
(133:38) charismatic. I think he was. But if he
(133:41) wasn't, why the [ __ ] was he so
(133:42) successful
(133:45) against?
(133:45) >> Well, I think part of the
(133:47) >> I think part of it was probably the help
(133:49) of being backed by the entirety of the
(133:51) DSA ecosystem. All of your people
(133:54) covering him were relentlessly positive
(133:56) and then they were [ __ ] on and
(133:57) attacking Haley Stevens a lot. Um, I
(133:59) think that that at that point, it's not
(134:00) as much now, but there was still some
(134:02) salience to like the whole [ __ ] Apac
(134:04) obsession and everything else. Um, so
(134:06) I'm sure that helped a lot. The general
(134:07) like anti-establishment sentiment. Um I
(134:09) think he did a good job at mobilizing
(134:10) younger voters who again are more likely
(134:13) to be online and everything but I think
(134:14) of all the um
(134:15) >> and he got influencers there right he
(134:17) got influencers there which was not just
(134:19) >> the influencers I don't think helped
(134:20) >> they absolutely did I think influencers
(134:23) absolutely help
(134:25) >> in the primary
(134:26) >> perhaps
(134:27) >> but this is a problem I think our I have
(134:30) a lot of problems with the primary
(134:32) system as a whole it it it selects for
(134:35) candidates that have harder times
(134:37) winning the general unfortunately ly
(134:39) because of how our politics works like
(134:40) right now. Um and and we are having a
(134:44) struggle in the general when we should
(134:46) not be because what worked in the
(134:49) primary is and and to be clear barely
(134:53) worked in the primary. Like we're
(134:54) talking
(134:56) what was the margin of percent which is
(134:59) crazy because primaries are voted by
(135:01) almost exclusively old people. And the
(135:03) fact that he won at all I know that we
(135:05) want to be like I mean it's just one
(135:06) win. That's a big deal.
(135:08) >> Hold on. Aren't prim primaries tend to
(135:10) be your most um I'm pretty sure tend to
(135:12) be the most radical voters in your base.
(135:15) >> It's the most it's the most engaged.
(135:16) It's the most locked in. So, it's often
(135:17) times an older base that's voting for
(135:19) you. I think it's like 40 plus typically
(135:20) that votes in primaries.
(135:22) >> The Michigan one is probably a little
(135:23) bit different who voted for that one.
(135:24) But typically primaries, the reason why
(135:27) Democrats have been doing mainstream
(135:29) radio and stuff for so long is because
(135:31) primaries and generals are often won by
(135:32) old vote. Um that's why they prioritized
(135:35) it. But the reality is that like like
(135:37) Trump is a good example of this as well.
(135:38) He didn't come to prominence because
(135:40) he's like good as a politician. He
(135:42) became to prominence because he's a
(135:43) charismatic populist leader that had
(135:45) motion. He was funny and interesting and
(135:47) he stuck it to them woke scolds.
(135:51) >> Yeah. I think it's because he had the
(135:52) apprentice. That's my I think that's the
(135:53) only reason why Trump
(135:57) just
(135:57) >> 100%. It was because of the apprentice.
(135:59) No, it it the apprentice if if it is the
(136:01) apprentice, it's because it allowed him
(136:02) to be trained in being charismatic. Like
(136:05) it like the charisma does matter. And I
(136:07) would agree that probably charisma
(136:08) mattering the most for leaders is not a
(136:10) good pre-selector. Unfortunately, that
(136:12) is the day and age that we are in. It
(136:14) just is. And the reality is that
(136:15) Democrats are not putting forward
(136:16) candidates that people want to get
(136:18) behind or highlighting their charisma or
(136:20) maybe even selecting for charisma. I'm
(136:21) not totally sure their selection
(136:22) process. I'm not on the inside of any of
(136:24) it. But socialists, despite the fact
(136:25) that if you actually talk to DSA members
(136:27) and you talk to how the system works,
(136:29) the DSA is [ __ ] Okay? They're
(136:32) struggling. They are not coordinated in
(136:34) any sort of way. They are barely
(136:35) institutional. They have money behind
(136:36) them and a lot of small small donor
(136:38) money specifically. But they basically
(136:40) retardedly stumbled into social
(136:41) influence because they were good at new
(136:43) media. like straight up.
(136:45) >> Hold up. You keep saying like Democrats
(136:47) aren't putting candidates that people
(136:49) want to get behind, but we are we are we
(136:52) flipped 30 seats from red to blue in my
(136:57) state of Pennsylvania. We have seats
(136:59) that have been held for 100 years by
(137:03) Republicans that have flipped.
(137:04) >> Is that because the Democrats are so
(137:06) inspiring or because the Republicans are
(137:07) so [ __ ] ass inside terrible awful? It
(137:10) What is it?
(137:12) I think it's it's both. It's both.
(137:15) People in my state genuinely like
(137:18) Shapiro. He won in 2022.
(137:22) >> Sure. To be fair, I think I think
(137:23) Shapiro might be the most popular
(137:26) politician by like approval in America.
(137:28) So that is an exceptional thing though.
(137:29) Yeah.
(137:30) >> Fair enough.
(137:30) >> But I mean I would I would ask I mean
(137:31) you can say true that maybe it's not
(137:33) just the Democrats are inspiring. Maybe
(137:34) it's because her holdings are [ __ ]
(137:35) up. But if that's the case, where are
(137:36) all these DSA people winning where the
(137:38) Republicans are [ __ ] up?
(137:40) U DSA candidates can't comp Wait, DSA
(137:42) can't compete against Republicans.
(137:44) >> They can only compete against
(137:46) >> Yeah. So,
(137:46) >> yeah, I agree with that. But like, but
(137:49) that's not a that's not a counter to
(137:50) what I'm saying because I would never
(137:52) suggest that DSA is going to be super
(137:53) successful against Republicans. I think
(137:55) that that's the biggest worry for
(137:56) generals is that when the DSA candidates
(137:58) win, we're terrified for the generals
(137:59) like Abdul because they tend not to
(138:01) perform well against Republicans because
(138:02) mostly the DSSE is good at pulling from
(138:04) Democrats, not from winning purple
(138:05) states. But I here here Kyla, I worry
(138:08) that like this becomes like a
(138:10) self-fulfilling prophecy where you keep
(138:13) saying no one's inspired by the
(138:14) Democratic candidates and this becomes
(138:16) like something that people pick up and a
(138:18) talking point that they use and I don't
(138:20) I don't know I
(138:21) >> if it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy
(138:24) everyone should be like [ __ ] me. I
(138:25) organize constantly. I help with
(138:27) canvasing free of my time. I am
(138:28) constantly consulting for free all of
(138:30) the [ __ ] time. I have helped so many
(138:32) liberal creators grow that I'm running
(138:33) Takeback America by my [ __ ] self and
(138:35) just running it volunteer. So yeah, if
(138:37) I'm doing something bad and it's causing
(138:38) a problem, I'm be just like [ __ ] me.
(138:41) Well, the issue is, okay, it feels like
(138:43) we're simultaneously saying that
(138:45) socialists are [ __ ] freaks that
(138:47) aren't good at anything and at the same
(138:49) time they're also really really
(138:50) dangerous and powerful. And what I'm
(138:52) trying to say is the DSA is doing a
(138:54) number of effective things and we just
(138:56) need to be honest about what those
(138:57) things are. And one of those things that
(138:58) I'm submitting forward in this one is
(139:00) motion. And I think if you can't be
(139:02) honest and look at liberal candidates
(139:04) and go, there's some that have motion,
(139:05) but most of them don't. And if we dial
(139:07) that up a little bit, they might be
(139:09) better because people would be inspired
(139:10) to be behind them because people mostly
(139:12) want to be in the parties that have the
(139:14) vibes that they like the most. And if
(139:16) the liberals have the vibes that people
(139:17) don't like, we're going to keep
(139:18) uninspiring people. And I think liberals
(139:20) are winning despite the fact that
(139:22) they're not that inspiring because the
(139:23) liberals are so great. And I want them
(139:25) to also be inspiring because if they
(139:26) have both of these things, if liberals
(139:28) figure out new media, they're
(139:30) unstoppable. But until they do, I don't
(139:32) know what to do.
(139:32) >> I am all for liberals being better and
(139:37) messaging better. I am under no illusion
(139:40) that the liberal messaging has been
(139:43) great, especially recently. And as I
(139:46) tell my audience all the time, liberals
(139:49) got lazy. Liberals got complacent.
(139:52) liberals decided not to they decided to
(139:56) seed the field thinking, "Oh, we don't
(139:59) need to fight on these new grounds
(140:01) because we are just so good. We're that
(140:04) goodness will carry us." And that has
(140:06) proven not to be the case. I agree with
(140:09) you that there are problems with how the
(140:13) Democrats and Democratic candidates are
(140:15) running. But what I what I am pushing
(140:18) back against is I think that the
(140:20) inspiration is there. It just needs that
(140:24) engine behind it and it's the engine
(140:26) that's lacking, not the uh inspiration.
(140:31) That's where we're disagreeing.
(140:33) >> Uh I think I don't know what's the
(140:35) difference there. I think I'm struggling
(140:37) to understand how that's
(140:38) >> Sure. Well, you again um the engine is
(140:42) how you communicate and get the message
(140:45) that is inspiring to the public so that
(140:48) they can hear the things that our
(140:50) candidates are doing and trying to do
(140:54) for them. Right? It is a failure of
(140:57) Democratic messaging
(140:59) >> that the DSA is seen as the or the the
(141:02) far left is seen as the people who want
(141:05) better Medicare, right? better medical
(141:07) care because Democrats want that too and
(141:10) liberals want that too. That is a
(141:13) failure of our messaging, but it's not a
(141:15) failure of our policy or what we want of
(141:18) our inspirations, right? Like
(141:20) >> that's that's the difference I'm talking
(141:22) to. It's it's the engine that's driving
(141:25) the the the idea that people have that
(141:28) it's the far left that's the ones that
(141:30) wants Medicare.
(141:32) >> That's the difference. And the the part
(141:34) that is is the engine, the thing that
(141:36) the the part that people aren't latching
(141:38) on to when it comes to liberals is that
(141:40) liberals are failing specifically in
(141:42) these ways. They succeed in lots of
(141:44) ways. I love liberals, but they are
(141:45) uncool. They have a very ambiguous
(141:48) identity. We don't even really know what
(141:49) liberals are broadly. We have no idea
(141:51) what the leading champion of the
(141:52) liberals are. It's complicated by a
(141:55) whole bunch of things. Multiple
(141:57) warfronts, the bureaucracy of these
(141:59) things, right? Institutions. We're
(142:01) ununified. We're deeply riskaverse,
(142:05) sometimes too, oftentimes too much so.
(142:07) And we are self- serving.
(142:10) That's why liberals are struggling in
(142:12) their messaging.
(142:15) >> People don't want to go get a beer. If I
(142:17) tell somebody a normie, an unpolitical
(142:19) normie, I'm having a party that's full
(142:22) of liberals. Do you think people want to
(142:23) come?
(142:25) >> I'd go to your party, Kyla. I'd go to
(142:27) your party. Okay.
(142:27) >> You're a liberal. What hobbies is your
(142:30) hobby? Your politics is your hobby.
(142:33) Right. The average party it up and we'd
(142:35) have fun.
(142:36) >> Yeah, that's not good.
(142:37) >> I'm gonna read some of these super chats
(142:39) and then I want to uh uh if you guys
(142:41) want there's a couple callers who want
(142:42) to call in and talk to you guys. But um
(142:45) u and oh also speaking of Taking Back
(142:48) America. Um so one of the things that
(142:51) we're doing in Take Back America is we
(142:54) are helping people check to see if
(142:56) they're registered to vote. And we have
(142:58) this great link that I'm going to be
(143:00) posting into the chat that you can go to
(143:04) and you can click on this link and you
(143:06) can put in your information and you can
(143:07) figure out whether or not you, yes you,
(143:11) dear viewer, are registered to vote.
(143:14) >> Okay, but hold on. I've already
(143:15) registered to vote before. Why the [ __ ]
(143:17) would I need to check it again?
(143:18) >> Because we have voter roles that often
(143:22) are purged by actors in the state. Maybe
(143:25) they think you're dead. Maybe they think
(143:27) you've moved. It's always always good to
(143:30) double check because you don't want to
(143:32) get there on election day and get turned
(143:34) away from the ballot box because
(143:37) >> Wait, even you think I'm even if I'm a
(143:38) young person, you think that can happen
(143:39) to me?
(143:40) >> That can happen to anyone. They are
(143:42) purposely targeting different
(143:44) >> How much does it cost though? Cuz I bet
(143:45) it's like 20 bucks or something or some
(143:47) subscription I got to pay to go check.
(143:48) It's free.
(143:50) >> Are you serious?
(143:51) >> They can join a disc.
(143:52) >> Well, hold on there. just to check to
(143:53) see if I've been purged from some voter
(143:54) role by Pulsey Gabbard or a cash. What's
(143:57) the link to that again?
(143:58) >> It cost you nothing but time if you go
(144:01) to uh go.win
(144:07) >> not so
(144:09) no slashpmwick-tv
(144:13) you can get and check you not only your
(144:17) registration but your friends and your
(144:18) families.
(144:19) >> Hold on. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
(144:20) You both have a promo code? I do.
(144:22) >> Okay, hold on. If your birthday is
(144:26) between January and July, then go to
(144:30) What's yours? Wick
(144:31) >> uh Wick-TV. It's uh the uh I'll I'll
(144:34) just DM you.
(144:35) >> I'll just spam it in my chat and you
(144:36) spam it in your chat. That's probably
(144:37) the easiest.
(144:38) >> Well, okay. I was going to say Julian
(144:40) after go to Kyla's link. [ __ ] it, never
(144:42) mind.
(144:43) >> I appreciate it.
(144:44) >> Okay, fair enough.
(144:45) >> I mean, if you want to post my link in
(144:46) your chat, I'd appreciate
(144:47) >> spam it in your chat, too, Destiny.
(144:48) Okay.
(144:49) >> Okay. Spam away, guys. Good luck. Also,
(144:51) if you join the Discord, there's people
(144:53) on staff all the time. If you're having
(144:55) issue with registration, you don't know
(144:56) why you've been booted off. There's
(144:57) staff in the Discord link as well that
(144:59) you can use that will like help you
(145:00) check everything.
(145:02) >> They're cool. Wow.
(145:03) >> Very nice.
(145:05) >> $100 from
(145:08) >> Mr.
(145:10) um No, nobody chef says this. Liberals
(145:15) pushing out the DSA is a direct result
(145:17) of the DSA and other leftist types
(145:20) attacking liberals for years. Our is a
(145:24) reaction. If the DSA were chill, there
(145:27) would be hardly any infighting in the
(145:28) left. They're only in the tent when they
(145:31) want something.
(145:33) Uh I think it shouldn't be a vire. It
(145:35) should be principled. Um spite driven
(145:37) politics is usually not sustainable or
(145:39) good politics. I have no problem with
(145:41) like separating the marriage. I've been
(145:43) advocating for the separated marriage
(145:44) since I came into the space in like
(145:46) 2022.
(145:48) Um, but it your politics shouldn't be
(145:51) spite driven. It should be principal
(145:52) driven.
(145:55) >> Fair enough. Quantum Fantasy a tier one
(145:58) for 24 months for two years. You've been
(146:01) a member for two years. That's crazy.
(146:04) Oh, thank you for the membership. And
(146:06) remember, we have Wick TV, the Wick
(146:08) Class emotes that you can get by being a
(146:10) member in the YouTube channel. So, go
(146:12) check those out. Spam those emotes.
(146:14) Clearilian for $2 says, "Wick asked them
(146:16) about dog farts." I'm not gonna ask
(146:19) about dog farts. Um,
(146:22) $5 from Ripped Cripper. The salty Trump
(146:25) DSers bought tears give me strength.
(146:30) $5 from Dosa. Hutch has said that he
(146:33) really doesn't want to interview
(146:34) candidates. Sucks, but he doesn't feel
(146:37) like he's good at it.
(146:42) I mean, I I think he's terrible. Yeah. I
(146:44) mean, no, I'm just kidding. I mean, you
(146:45) just have to do more to to gain practice
(146:46) doing it, right? I don't think there's
(146:47) anything wrong with a smart guy. He
(146:49) knows politics really well. I think he
(146:50) talks to a variety of people. I think he
(146:52) could definitely one of us do it. If he
(146:53) feels like he's not doing a good job at
(146:54) it now, just keep doing it.
(146:55) >> Hutch Hutch is worried that something he
(146:57) will say will reflect badly upon the
(146:59) candidate and he will be the reason that
(147:02) the candidate will tank. That's his fear
(147:03) behind. liberal failings are that
(147:05) they're uncool, ambiguous identity,
(147:07) complicated, ununified, risk averse, and
(147:10) in this case, not self-s serving.
(147:13) >> Certain. Well, if only Hassan [ __ ] was
(147:15) a little more riskaverse when he went to
(147:17) uh try to hitch his star to different
(147:20) Democratic politicians, but
(147:21) >> why it served him great. It didn't serve
(147:24) the candidate great, but it served him
(147:25) awesome. Why would he be more
(147:29) uh five pounds from RZ? What the [ __ ] to
(147:32) say? I don't think Hassan [ __ ] is cool.
(147:34) I think Wick is cool. And I I do have a
(147:37) poll in my chat asking
(147:39) >> who is the most cool, Wick, Kyla,
(147:41) Destiny, or Hassan.
(147:43) >> And I'm sorry gang, by 43% Wick takes
(147:46) it. I'm sorry. Just
(147:47) >> damn,
(147:48) >> just how it is.
(147:49) >> Um, $5 from original heirloom. She's
(147:53) misremembering here. Stevens had very
(147:55) strong polling from the jump. McMaro had
(147:58) also had MCH Dem Party support. No
(148:01) conspiracy either way.
(148:03) >> Who said a conspiracy? There's no
(148:05) conspiracy. The reality is I could just
(148:07) tell you because I I worked in part I
(148:10) consulted with McMoral. The reality is
(148:11) that more of the institution threw in
(148:13) behind Stevens because she was a more
(148:15) triedand- trueue candidate and that she
(148:16) was more institutionally connected. So
(148:18) they threw in behind her which is why
(148:20) she had significantly more funding. And
(148:21) then they asked McMorro to step down.
(148:23) Like it's that simple. Um there's no
(148:25) crazy conspiracy. This happens all the
(148:27) time. All the time. Republicans, even
(148:30) DSA probably, well, they have aren't
(148:32) doing it yet because they have no
(148:33) organization, but eventually they will
(148:34) start doing that's what they'll ask
(148:35) their candidates to step down if they're
(148:36) splitting the vote. Just makes sense.
(148:38) >> Okay, $5 from JL9782.
(148:43) Thanks for the content. A+ as usual.
(148:45) Well, you're welcome. And then $20 from
(148:47) the real sloth a lot. Dems need to
(148:50) realize that quote the media end quote
(148:54) will always be clout chasing sheep. If
(148:56) they want to get the media on their side
(148:58) they need to generate enough attention
(149:00) independently that the media will need
(149:02) to leech off of them.
(149:05) >> I this is yeah I would say it needs to
(149:07) be grassroots first. Um and then the
(149:09) institutions have to get in behind it.
(149:10) And the issue is that when we have
(149:11) grassroots things that pop off on
(149:12) liberal sides the institutions don't get
(149:14) behind it. Um and we don't get behind
(149:16) each other even at the grassroots level.
(149:17) Give me $10 million and I'll make
(149:19) whatever you want to be grass-rich,
(149:20) right? Like you give me $10 million, I
(149:22) will build you an engine and I will get
(149:24) verality and we will and you will too.
(149:26) >> They'll never give you $10 million. You
(149:28) don't have a master's degree. You don't
(149:29) have a long-standing nepotistic
(149:31) relationship with most of the people
(149:32) that are typical staffers. And you don't
(149:34) have a longstanding like four-year plus
(149:36) resume of doing nonprofit work as a CEO.
(149:39) Sorry, you won't get money
(149:41) >> after I sue Pixie's family and I take
(149:43) all of her family's net worth. I will
(149:45) give it to you, Wick. I'll pay you for
(149:47) that. Okay, we'll do it.
(149:49) >> I I don't know what to say about that.
(149:51) Okay, let's bring on a couple callers
(149:53) and we'll see what we can do.
(149:56) >> Okay, you've been waiting a long
(149:58) >> callers. Wait, not shot callers, right?
(150:01) >> October 7th was two days ago. That joke
(150:04) is is old now.
(150:05) >> My bad.
(150:07) >> Uh Marlo, what do you got for us?
(150:10) >> Hi. Um I wanted to address the um
(150:13) institutional uh risk aversion and the
(150:16) grassroots question. Um kind of also
(150:19) while addressing the like existing
(150:21) structures that we see with the DSA and
(150:24) MAGA both having like a super high
(150:26) virality um and tons and tons of like
(150:29) people being seriously on message. Um, I
(150:32) think that that style of messaging works
(150:35) really well for authoritarian um, like
(150:37) groups of people, people who want to
(150:39) listen to a hierarchical structure who
(150:42) want to be um, completely uh, melded in
(150:46) with their cohort. Um, and I think that
(150:48) the most important thing about like the
(150:50) the liberal uh, media sphere is that
(150:52) that we're trying to garner consensus
(150:54) among diverse uh, interests. Um, and so
(150:58) I think that like you're absolutely
(151:00) right, Kyla, that grassroots is the
(151:01) answer here. But, um, I think that money
(151:05) doesn't have to be. Um, I was recently
(151:07) handed the keys to my county party's
(151:09) Facebook page, their targeted email
(151:11) builder, their Canva account. Um, and,
(151:14) um, I invested some of my own money in a
(151:16) small like cheap like streaming setup.
(151:18) And I've been doing work for them to
(151:20) help. Like they they made me their comm
(151:22) director. I'm just a volunteer. I'm just
(151:24) a local. I live in an area where the
(151:25) party's really small. Um, but I think
(151:27) that um if county parties, this like the
(151:32) the smallest institutions possible are
(151:35) willing to trust people like me to um to
(151:39) help their hyper local messaging
(151:42) strategy improve, then um I think that
(151:47) what I want to say is that I really hope
(151:49) that other people in their small
(151:51) communities are willing to start doing
(151:53) the same. Um, I think that, um, showing
(151:57) the higher tiers, the state and the and
(152:00) the federal government that, um, like
(152:02) county parties can find volunteers who
(152:04) message directly to the constituents
(152:06) that they know and love and live with.
(152:08) Um, is the right path to kind of like
(152:10) finding the different um, strategies
(152:13) that are going to work best for
(152:14) liberals. Um, and I don't know, like I'm
(152:18) I'm sure that there are plenty of people
(152:19) who are already doing this across the
(152:21) country. Um I'm looking to I'm putting
(152:24) together my um like findings on some of
(152:26) the work that I've been doing and I'm
(152:27) planning to publish a self docs in uh
(152:30) May or June um because I think that um
(152:33) if if people are willing to step out of
(152:36) this like internet culture online
(152:37) anonymity thing and start doing what
(152:39) they do um directly within their
(152:41) community and and to be willing to be
(152:43) identified as from ex place I I think
(152:45) that we might be able to actually
(152:46) achieve that grassroots on message tried
(152:49) and trueue in like method. that people
(152:52) who are higher up will be able to say
(152:54) like, "Oh, we see that working."
(152:56) >> What do you guys think?
(153:00) >> I mean, I agree that there's like
(153:01) there's a lot of power for grabs at the
(153:03) local level especially like people
(153:04) underestimate how much like sometimes
(153:06) literally one person can exercise um at
(153:08) the city level. Uh if you get a group of
(153:10) like five or 10 people like even in
(153:13) decently sized cities, you can take over
(153:14) like entire local party things. Um yeah,
(153:16) that's a message I always push push. I
(153:18) definitely agree with it. It's a little
(153:19) bit harder to push that type of thing
(153:20) from the influencer side because as like
(153:22) influencers were so national and
(153:24) international, it's hard to fixate or
(153:26) focus on any one like locality. But it's
(153:28) definitely good to push people towards.
(153:30) I will say as a byproduct that I never
(153:31) considered initially, but I've heard it
(153:33) so much now. as a byproduct of the
(153:34) organizing that we did for the canvasing
(153:36) stuff uh in the past and then for the
(153:37) digital ground game stuff, a surprising
(153:39) number of people have gone on to doing
(153:41) to to participating in some way in some
(153:43) local level whether that's trying to win
(153:46) city council seats or being part of
(153:47) their local DNC chapter or whatever
(153:49) else. Yeah.
(153:50) >> Okay. Thanks for doing that. That's all
(153:52) I really had. Appreciate you guys.
(153:54) >> Okay. Thanks for coming in.
(153:56) >> Yeah. Speaking of local stuff, by the
(153:57) way, Takeback America, we're going to be
(153:59) making our HQ in Dallas because as
(154:01) Destiny, who won your uh who's the most
(154:03) cool poll, by the way, just uh if you
(154:05) can take a look at your results very
(154:07) quickly, they're in
(154:09) a tight race. I have no idea.
(154:10) >> Are you guys copying my my uh my poll?
(154:13) >> I didn't copy. Okay, it was Destiny's
(154:16) mod team probably that did it. Just got
(154:18) to say, you know, I was voted as the
(154:20) most cool. Okay, but uh if you guys are
(154:22) interested in like
(154:23) >> Wait, by how many votes? What was the
(154:24) percentage from what it was?
(154:25) >> It was tight. It was royal tight. Uh,
(154:27) let me look again.
(154:27) >> Well, I mean, so then if you do the
(154:28) conversion from like CAD to USD, it's
(154:30) probably I would win there. Sorry.
(154:31) >> Well, I'm USD now, so I get the full
(154:35) full dollar. Um, 52 to 47.
(154:40) >> 52 for me.
(154:42) >> Damn.
(154:42) >> None for Justin. Zero votes for debt.
(154:44) I'm just kidding. Um, but yeah, if you
(154:47) guys are interested in local stuff, TBA,
(154:48) we're going to be making an HQ in Dallas
(154:50) where we're going to be doing we're just
(154:52) going to try to flip Texas Purple like
(154:53) over time. I'm fully invested in a
(154:55) Purple Texas program. Um, I'm trying to
(154:57) work with Tal Rico's team. So, if you
(154:59) guys are local to Dex Talis or anything
(155:01) like that, uh, hit me up. I'll be there
(155:02) in like November. I'll be docked within
(155:04) two weeks, so I don't even care. Um,
(155:07) it's true. It's just it's just the
(155:08) reality of my life. I when I moved to
(155:10) this house, I was doxed within three
(155:12) [ __ ] days. I was just like, I give
(155:14) up. You know what? Don't care anymore.
(155:16) Um, I got a big scary dog. Um, and uh,
(155:20) we're going to be doing cool stuff. Lots
(155:21) of third space stuff that's also
(155:23) political, but we'll have yoga and
(155:25) jiu-jitsu training and bunch of stuff.
(155:28) >> Training in an army, firearms training,
(155:30) explosives, ordinance training. What?
(155:32) >> Sorry, Nick is screaming.
(155:33) >> I said it. That sounds like it'd be
(155:34) awesome stuff. Yeah.
(155:36) >> I can't hear you, Nick.
(155:37) >> Okay. Uh, caller
(155:38) >> Corpus Christi.
(155:41) >> Oh, if you're in Corpus Christie, Texas,
(155:42) as well.
(155:42) >> Oh, we got a we got a special guest
(155:44) coming soon, so stay stay tuned. But uh
(155:47) >> Corpus Christie,
(155:49) >> what do you got for us?
(155:51) >> Hello. Um so I got a couple things. Um
(155:54) by the way, if any point I just randomly
(155:56) cut out I'm in the middle of a
(155:58) hurricane, so that's probably just my
(155:59) power. So first thing,
(156:01) >> where do you live that there's a
(156:02) hurricane right now?
(156:04) >> Oh,
(156:05) >> yeah. There's a hitting the Gulf.
(156:08) >> Damn.
(156:08) >> Yeah. So wow, I did not know that.
(156:12) >> Yeah, you know, government manufactured
(156:14) hurricanes. It's a problem. But
(156:16) >> true.
(156:16) >> Um, so, uh, first thing, um, so with,
(156:20) uh, the recent Republicans, uh, campaign
(156:23) to basically like smear, uh, Hassan and
(156:26) like tie him to the Democrats and stuff.
(156:28) Um, so I want to start off with I feel
(156:30) like the Republicans attempt to tie
(156:33) Hassan with Democrats have failed for
(156:35) the most part because they don't they
(156:36) didn't realize or they weren't aware um,
(156:39) that many like uh, mainstream Democrats
(156:41) already spoke out against him. Um, so
(156:44) it's amplified by many prominent
(156:45) Democrats like Osaf and Zlakin and Jeff
(156:48) calling him out on his dangerous
(156:50) rhetoric. And I feel like a a better
(156:53) example, um, there's a a whole famous
(156:56) letter by uh, New York Rep. Torres who
(156:58) sent a letter to the Twitch CEO about
(157:02) like how he amplifies anti-semitism like
(157:04) and how keeping him in his platform is
(157:06) like dangerous and all of that. But in
(157:08) any case, uh so I feel like um on one
(157:11) hand like I can I I so in my opinion I
(157:14) feel in some way this might actually
(157:17) hurt the people um like all of us on the
(157:20) center left um because um on one hand it
(157:24) failed because there just isn't the
(157:26) association between Hassan and Democrats
(157:28) that the Republicans were hoping for.
(157:30) But on the other hand, um Hassan's
(157:33) followers and like people I know in uh
(157:35) real life who are his followers, they
(157:37) feel that uh very very vindicated
(157:41) because those efforts didn't really
(157:42) work. So because Republicans already
(157:45) receive a lot of like ridicule and
(157:46) they're portrayed negatively, they feel
(157:49) it portrays Hassan in a much better
(157:51) light than he really is. And I feel like
(157:54) thereby enabling him to gain more media
(157:56) attention than he's ever received and
(157:59) then and therefore facilitating him
(158:01) gaining a bigger audience through that
(158:03) exposure. Um and for what reason I kind
(158:06) of feel like mass sensationalized
(158:08) attacks from the right towards Hassan
(158:10) actually make it much harder for
(158:12) pragmatic um liberals to fight back
(158:15) against the far left because it's such
(158:17) an uphill battle. So do you agree with
(158:20) my assessment? And then how do we gain
(158:22) that leverage back?
(158:27) >> Um I feel like there are certain people
(158:28) who are very invested in this narrative.
(158:30) But I I think the argument becomes
(158:32) unfalsifiable with the way that they try
(158:34) to say that if like if the attacks work,
(158:37) then they say it's because the Democrats
(158:38) helped. If the attacks don't work, then
(158:40) they say it's because Hassan was never
(158:41) that popular, whatever. Like I think the
(158:43) reason why they weren't as successful as
(158:44) they wanted them to be was because for a
(158:46) lot of people there was like a decently
(158:48) strong disavowel. Um I mean like I other
(158:52) than just vibes I mean if I try to look
(158:54) at any data or look at any numbers I
(158:55) mean that seems to be borne out pretty
(158:57) well in terms of how people in the
(158:59) Democratic party generally feel about
(159:00) Hassan like the popularity is very very
(159:02) very low and and for the people that
(159:03) know him it's generally pretty negative.
(159:05) So the idea that somehow, you know, none
(159:08) of the things being stated by libs were
(159:10) true or not, like if that is the case,
(159:12) then all of those people have better
(159:14) intuitions than all the other Democrats
(159:16) that did disavow. Like Mdani is
(159:18) distanced and doesn't do anything with
(159:19) them anymore, probably pretty
(159:20) explicitly. Elsa literally had to phone
(159:22) call him and tell him to shut the [ __ ]
(159:23) up, has said that he's not going to do
(159:25) events with them anymore. I guess all of
(159:26) those people's instincts are incorrect
(159:28) then and then the other people are
(159:30) right. I don't that doesn't seem obvious
(159:32) to me. Yeah,
(159:34) >> fair enough. Any
(159:37) thoughts, Ardite?
(159:38) >> Uh, yeah, there's something that's very
(159:39) interesting that's been happening, which
(159:41) is that I do like I the jury is still
(159:43) out for me to know to what level Hassan
(159:46) has been harmful or helpful. I obviously
(159:48) hope that he's been mostly harmful. I
(159:50) definitely don't know if I agree with
(159:52) Stephen about his level of unpopularity.
(159:55) Um, I think with older voters, he has a
(159:57) fair bit of unpopularity and obviously
(159:59) like moderates. Um, so I'm hoping that
(160:01) that just bears out as a lesson. He's
(160:03) certainly popular on internet media and
(160:05) culture, right, which is I think what
(160:06) part drives so much of the willingness
(160:09) for people to risk things with him and
(160:11) the DSA is just less risk averse. Um,
(160:13) what's interesting though about the the
(160:14) tying of these things is that like every
(160:16) single time the establishment attacks
(160:18) Hassan, it's just better for his brand,
(160:19) which is unfortunate. Um,
(160:22) >> I don't think that's necessarily true
(160:23) either.
(160:24) >> He definitely gets to flip it and go
(160:26) look at institution wants me. like the
(160:28) institution hating you, especially if
(160:30) you're like appealing to an audience
(160:32) under 35, is absolutely populist gold.
(160:36) >> I think it's a it's kind of complicated.
(160:37) I do actually agree with what you just
(160:39) said there, but I would say actually
(160:41) less for political reasons and more for
(160:43) psychological reasons. I think Hassan
(160:45) was too narcissistic to leverage it into
(160:46) popular for himself. Um, I think that if
(160:48) he was more politically minded and less
(160:50) like clout obsessed, I think that the
(160:51) attacks from the institution could have
(160:53) been good. But the fact that he was
(160:54) enable unable to work with the campaigns
(160:57) to navigate that messaging ended up
(160:59) making him so much of a liability that
(161:00) him getting cut off from all of these
(161:01) people I think is really really bad for
(161:03) his brand. Um, like the disavowels and
(161:06) everything else, the phone call that
(161:07) published article these are I think
(161:09) humiliating not good moments for him. I
(161:11) guess the question we need to ask like
(161:13) was it helpful for his brand or was it
(161:15) hurtful for his brand is is he going to
(161:17) be next cycle invited back and I don't I
(161:21) don't think he is right. I don't
(161:23) >> one can hope but like
(161:24) >> he has to do a lot of work in between in
(161:27) order to show that he can work with
(161:29) campaigns because the popularity here
(161:31) isn't even the point at the at the
(161:32) moment. I think the issue is that he
(161:34) just doesn't have a good theory of
(161:36) exercising political power. the way that
(161:37) he's like he's just way too aggressive
(161:40) and focused on his kind of career and
(161:42) sometimes to the detriment of the
(161:43) politicians. Like you just you can't
(161:44) have a campaign surrogate constantly
(161:45) saying every single time you put out a
(161:47) statement going on his stream and being
(161:48) like, "Yeah, uh Elsa doesn't mean any of
(161:50) that, guys. Don't worry, he's just
(161:51) pandering." It's like the it's probably
(161:52) the single most [ __ ] thing that you
(161:54) could ever possibly do. And like 20
(161:56) times.
(161:57) >> No, I don't call her. Thank you.
(161:59) >> We'll wait to see. We'll definitely wait
(162:01) to see. I mean, the DNC invited him. I
(162:03) mean, the DNC didn't invite him to the
(162:05) the convention, but um they vetted their
(162:08) creators a lot and he got through like
(162:09) no problem. So, I think it just depends.
(162:11) I think like unfortunately until there's
(162:13) a clear place for candidates to fall
(162:15) into that is liberal media successful
(162:17) and as long as they stay incompetent in
(162:19) new media, there's a decent chance that
(162:21) he keeps squeaking through because their
(162:23) main thing when they think power and
(162:24) influence as a creator is their views.
(162:27) Um, and
(162:28) >> well, I also think that the Democratic
(162:30) party has a staffer problem and a lot of
(162:32) these staffers are fans of Hassan and
(162:34) and uh are looking to boost Hassan
(162:36) rather than boost the Democrats.
(162:38) >> Well, that would speak to his
(162:39) popularity. Yeah. If if that is the case
(162:42) and that has been my experience that is
(162:44) the case. Is that popularity when that
(162:46) is the kind of goal of your organization
(162:48) was to infiltrate these spaces and to do
(162:51) that like you
(162:52) >> why are these different it doesn't
(162:54) matter your intention if you become
(162:55) popular because you're super cool and
(162:57) fun and everyone likes you become
(162:58) popular because you bully everyone
(163:00) you're still popular
(163:00) >> when I say popular I think like
(163:02) well-liked generally but this doesn't
(163:05) take well-liked generally everyone can
(163:07) hate you but you can just have one buddy
(163:10) right who gets in the right position to
(163:12) give you access right And that doesn't
(163:14) make you popular. That just means you
(163:16) have people that like you in high
(163:19) places. But in general,
(163:21) >> look, as somebody who's been terrorized
(163:22) by Hassan's community, I would never
(163:25) pretend like he isn't popular. I just
(163:27) wouldn't I just think it's bad that he
(163:28) is.
(163:29) >> Yeah.
(163:30) I would I would just say that like we
(163:31) can say that he gets good viewership on
(163:32) Twitch where he has like a huge
(163:34) institutional protection but as
(163:35) especially as much as he's been forced
(163:37) by his little ad agency to give
(163:38) interviews and everything everywhere
(163:39) else the numbers just don't aren't
(163:42) reflected anywhere
(163:43) >> somebody
(163:45) oh sorry
(163:46) >> that at that Texas event he was at right
(163:48) he couldn't even fill up the 450 person
(163:51) auditorium and that was after having the
(163:53) publicity of his event being cancelled
(163:54) and the tweets and everything else about
(163:56) the security costs and all that um and
(163:58) then just the viewership He just doesn't
(164:00) drive good viewership on other platforms
(164:01) when he goes to give interviews or
(164:02) whatever else. Like I just I don't
(164:04) outside of Twitch. I just don't think he
(164:05) has the
(164:06) >> I'm not convinced
(164:07) >> popularity. I think people think
(164:08) >> somebody research on this about clips.
(164:10) >> People will cover him.
(164:12) >> Well, no. I mean even his clip channels
(164:14) I think he went from like somebody was
(164:15) telling me they were doing research on
(164:16) this. He went from like 13 clip channels
(164:19) to I think like he has over 30 right
(164:21) now. And they all like do pretty good
(164:22) numbers. Like he
(164:24) >> sure maybe on the maybe on the clips
(164:25) thing. Sure. that the staying power on
(164:27) clip stuff is not very good.
(164:29) >> Well, the staying power is on the
(164:30) YouTube on the stream side. That's the
(164:32) most horizontal stable.
(164:33) >> Yeah, but the only but he's I don't like
(164:36) to say this because I don't want to give
(164:37) him career advice, but like if Assan was
(164:38) serious about trying to grow like his
(164:40) presence, he needs to stream on other
(164:41) platforms. He's completely locked on
(164:43) Twitch. I'm pretty sure his concurrent
(164:44) viewership is down than it was a year
(164:45) ago and down from two years ago.
(164:47) >> He's on the He has dropped off the
(164:50) Twitch's top 10 or top 20. He is. Yeah,
(164:53) he's getting less now,
(164:54) >> but he owns politics on that platform
(164:56) and there's not anybody else that can
(164:58) really kind of compete with him. So
(165:00) >> I
(165:01) >> Okay, we got two guests now. We got
(165:03) David here and we got uh Hobbit
(165:05) follower. Welcome both of you. If you
(165:07) have cameras, turn them on.
(165:09) >> Give me a second. Give me a second.
(165:10) >> I will not turn my camera on, but I I am
(165:13) here.
(165:13) >> How dare you?
(165:14) >> I turn your camera.
(165:15) >> I My main contention is Erd. I think
(165:18) when you talk about why these people are
(165:20) popular and why that you think that
(165:21) they're cool. Um, do you think Kyle
(165:24) Kolinsky is cool?
(165:26) >> He's definitely got some motion. Yeah,
(165:28) he's got like a pretty cohesive
(165:29) aesthetic. He's kind of like an edgy
(165:31) posting boy. Um, seems to have a pretty
(165:33) like semi-loyal fan base. Um,
(165:36) >> yeah.
(165:38) >> Like I think what you're like
(165:39) pinpointing as cool is like somebody
(165:41) that's unapologetic in what it is that
(165:43) they're doing with their politics. So, I
(165:44) think that one of the reasons why I like
(165:46) this song.
(165:46) >> No, that's not
(165:47) >> Hey, can I finish my sentence or I've
(165:49) been listening?
(165:49) >> You totally can. I just want to be clear
(165:51) that's not what I'm talking about.
(165:52) >> So, so my other thing is I'm going to
(165:54) talk to you about why you do get flack
(165:56) from liberal people because liberals
(165:58) right now like people like David Destiny
(166:00) for a while Wick is also doing this.
(166:02) They are becoming more unapologetic in
(166:04) what it is that they believe in their
(166:06) politics. That is what something that
(166:07) the far left and the right have done
(166:10) pretty like with with really good
(166:12) results. The far-left will not apologize
(166:15) for anything. They will call you a
(166:17) genocidal like terrible person and if
(166:19) you go anywhere out of line like Lamondi
(166:22) is doing right now, they will
(166:23) immediately excise you. And the reason
(166:25) that their people stay that way is
(166:27) because they are just unapologetic. Mike
(166:29) from PA is not cool. Okay. But the guy
(166:32) pulls in 4,000 viewers.
(166:34) >> And the reason that he does that is
(166:35) because he's Yeah. He's unapologetic in
(166:38) what it is that he talks about. He's
(166:40) like the craziest person. He has to go
(166:42) probably a lot further than people like
(166:43) Hassan and Kyle Kolinsky and stuff have
(166:46) to go in order to keep themselves
(166:48) popular. But but the main reason is
(166:51) because they're unapologetic. So I think
(166:53) they don't allow anybody to say anything
(166:56) that's to the contrary of them. And if
(166:57) they do, they'll fight to the death
(166:59) about it. I I I think so. I think that
(167:02) that is one way that you can have motion
(167:04) for sure. I think Barack Obama though is
(167:06) not I think we've all agreed Barack
(167:07) Obama was cool. He had a lot of
(167:09) charisma. He had a really established um
(167:11) aesthetic. He had motion. Um but I don't
(167:13) think that we would describe any of the
(167:15) things that you're outlining there to
(167:16) Obama necessarily. But I think that he
(167:18) was cool. I think that there is a whole
(167:19) bunch. When I'm saying cool, it's this
(167:20) very vague notion of essentially you
(167:22) have motion. You're the type of person
(167:24) that people want to collect towards and
(167:25) they get inspired by you because of
(167:27) something about you, right? It's usually
(167:28) a
(167:30) >> the issue that you were talking about
(167:31) where you're saying that liberals don't
(167:33) want to go out to bars and they're not
(167:34) people that you want to party with.
(167:35) Leftists even more so. You do not want
(167:37) to be around those people. Okay. They
(167:38) are the people that when you say the
(167:41) wrong word, they will absolutely deny
(167:43) you. Like, are you going to go party
(167:45) with a leftist more than you're going to
(167:47) party with a liberal? Like, is that
(167:49) something that you would say you would
(167:50) do?
(167:50) >> Uh, me personally, I'm not sure what
(167:53) this question is. So, if you want to
(167:54) talk about like generally, so leftists,
(167:56) for example, are really established in
(167:57) like anime, punk, goth, and like music
(168:00) scenes, right? So, I agree that they do
(168:01) a fair bit of this woke scolding, but as
(168:03) a result of them being really connected
(168:04) to these cultural art spaces, the the
(168:07) far-left is viewed as more cool. So,
(168:08) yeah, if you hear like a bunch of like
(168:10) anarchists are having a party, you're
(168:12) probably going to think that that like a
(168:13) anarchist communists are having a party,
(168:15) you'd probably assume that that would
(168:16) like be a lot more fun necessarily.
(168:18) >> How do you square that with people like
(168:20) Hassan who have like no personality
(168:22) whatsoever? Like he doesn't like music,
(168:25) >> the hottest people. He's uh he was able
(168:27) to like utilize his relationship with
(168:29) Steven to get into this royalty and then
(168:31) like utilize probably his attractiveness
(168:33) and some level of like social skill to
(168:35) basically ice Steven out of these social
(168:36) spaces. So like I agree that Hassan
(168:38) isn't overly charismatic, but like
(168:40) somebody having motion is more than just
(168:42) charisma. That's why I tried to be like,
(168:43) well, it's not just looks and it's not
(168:44) just charisma. It's like a whole
(168:45) comprehensive package.
(168:47) >> What What do you think would happen?
(168:49) >> Hold on. I think we're just scribbling
(168:50) over over terminology.
(168:52) >> Sure. Sure. So the the the other issue
(168:55) >> quick Hobbit follow we understand or at
(168:58) least most of us understand what what
(169:00) Kyla is getting at here at least at this
(169:02) point.
(169:02) >> I don't I don't know I feel like a lot
(169:03) of way more manufacturer I think Hassan
(169:06) Hassan thrown
(169:08) >> and again it's hard it's hard it's hard
(169:10) to give this cuz I because I everybody
(169:11) will just think it's personal whatever
(169:12) but like I mean I've been a streamer for
(169:13) 16 years thrown into an adversarial
(169:15) environment doesn't even make it off the
(169:17) ground. Um, like we say that he's cool,
(169:19) but he's not. He's pretty autistic when
(169:20) he hangs out with people. Like people
(169:21) literally make fun of him for it. He
(169:23) might get a pass kind of because of the
(169:24) way that he looks, but it's more just
(169:25) because of the political side that just
(169:26) cosigns at everything that he does. Like
(169:27) he's had gaff after gaff on stream. He
(169:30) um he doesn't really have any friends
(169:32) much at all. Like he hangs out with some
(169:33) people that are popular that he'll hang
(169:34) out with because they're popular.
(169:36) Obviously, like he couldn't hold on his
(169:37) relationship with Valkyrie. He couldn't
(169:38) hold on any of his relationships on
(169:39) Twitch, with Poker, any of these other
(169:41) people that won't even show up on
(169:42) podcast with him anymore. Um he his
(169:44) background is like relatively is is
(169:46) incredibly uninspiring. Like he's like
(169:47) the definition of a international you
(169:49) know exchange foreign student nepo baby
(169:52) who was gifted in every like there's
(169:53) nothing really about his story that's
(169:55) like super awesome or super cool. He
(169:56) doesn't do cool things like even the
(169:58) stuff that he poses with like he doesn't
(169:59) actually shoot guns or anything. So I
(170:00) it's this is an inorganic manufactured
(170:02) image that I think you even you maybe
(170:04) believe a little bit but thrown into any
(170:05) other environment like I just
(170:07) >> Yeah. Yeah. I I think particularly
(170:08) >> there's a reason why he hasn't accepted
(170:10) the split call out.
(170:10) >> I'm gonna be super frank though. if we
(170:12) like
(170:13) >> quibbling over what is cool is like I I
(170:16) when I say cool I mean a pretty broad
(170:18) range of things, right? And I think that
(170:20) if you have no idea what I'm talking
(170:21) about, it kind of feels like it's
(170:22) because you're a loser. Like I I think I
(170:25) think the fact that we're
(170:27) the fact that we're quivering what's
(170:29) cool,
(170:29) >> it's like come on, we like think about
(170:32) this and I especially you saying that
(170:34) you don't know you do know what I'm
(170:35) talking about because you are socially
(170:37) sophisticated. We like understand that
(170:39) this is a like cohesive broad thing of
(170:41) having access to multip but that's why
(170:43) I'm saying but I think you're just
(170:44) seeing the you're seeing the
(170:45) manufacturing image like what is a like
(170:46) when you think of like oh Hassan is cool
(170:48) like what are these cool things that
(170:50) like Hassan does
(170:51) >> he's in all of he bro I'll be serious
(170:55) I'll be he's in all of the parties porn
(170:57) stars and tons of super attractive women
(170:59) are throwing themselves at him he's
(171:01) hanging out with celebrities he's
(171:03) fashionable
(171:04) yes okay so he's not fashionable that's
(171:06) why he's wearing suits all the because
(171:07) you're just saying a bunch of random
(171:08) stuff. None of this is true, though.
(171:09) When he goes to parties, don't think
(171:10) >> when when he goes to parties, everybody
(171:12) makes fun of him for being autistic. I'm
(171:14) reminded of the clip where the girls
(171:15) were talking to him and he's like,
(171:16) "Yeah, I make more money than everybody
(171:18) here." He's on his phone constantly.
(171:20) People make fun of him for it all the
(171:21) time. Like, he's not like, "Yeah, there
(171:23) are people that want to be around him or
(171:24) want to hang out with him because he's
(171:26) popular, but it's like popular because
(171:27) he's popular and that's it. He's not
(171:29) like like we can't think of a single
(171:31) kind of like suave cool thing ever that
(171:33) he does at He just isn't." One of the mo
(171:36) one of the benefits of being remarkably
(171:38) attractive is it helps with all of this.
(171:39) Like unironically, he is like Yes. He is
(171:42) like in the top like 10% of Yes.
(171:45) >> You don't think being attractive helps
(171:46) with being viewed as cool?
(171:47) >> Don't say that, Wick. Don't say that.
(171:49) >> Top 10% attractiveness on an
(171:51) international scale doesn't matter.
(171:53) You're nothing at that point. You got to
(171:54) be top like 01% attractiveness. To ask
(171:57) any girl that tries to sell Only Fans
(171:58) now that's like a 10 in her town is like
(172:00) a you know whatever online. And the same
(172:01) is true for men as well. Hassan is
(172:02) attractive. He's above well above
(172:04) average attractive for sure. But I don't
(172:06) think very much of his success is due to
(172:07) him being attractive. I think it's
(172:08) because he was a he was a nepo baby.
(172:10) Like he there were more attractive guys
(172:12) relationships with Twitch royalty. Why
(172:14) was he able to get in with Twitch
(172:16) royalty because of you and then take
(172:17) them over so sufficiently that he kicked
(172:19) you out? Why?
(172:21) >> Because he was willing because he
(172:22) exercised power in a way that I never
(172:23) did. Right. You're saying that Hassan
(172:25) was able to ice me out of these areas
(172:26) because of his size. The only reason
(172:28) Hassan got into those areas was because
(172:29) I prepared the environment on Twitch for
(172:31) politics. I was willing to be stupid. He
(172:32) was a small stop. Let me finish. Because
(172:33) I was willing to boost him as a smaller
(172:35) creator when I was a larger creator. If
(172:36) I would have never worked with him, it's
(172:38) it's arguable whether or not he would
(172:39) have ever gotten into streaming at all.
(172:40) >> I agree. I That's not Sorry, you were
(172:42) misunderstanding me. I was not saying
(172:44) that he was successful because of his
(172:45) size. I'm saying that he's not
(172:47) successful because in fact, he didn't
(172:48) have his size because you pulled him in.
(172:50) That's what I was trying to say. And
(172:51) despite the fact that you were a larger
(172:53) content creator and I would argue
(172:54) somebody who's when you're on you're
(172:56) like a very very charismatic person, he
(172:58) was still able to leverage those
(172:59) relationships against you and take over
(173:01) all of them. Which is why part of the
(173:03) the the image the manufactured image of
(173:05) him being cool is all of the Twitch
(173:07) royalty are also friends with him,
(173:10) right? That's all of the but I was
(173:12) friends with these people as well. The
(173:13) difference was not the difference was
(173:14) not the difference was not in the
(173:16) capability. The difference was in the
(173:17) choosing. I've never iced anybody out of
(173:19) anything in my entire life. It's just
(173:20) not typically how I operate. Um well, I
(173:22) I guess I didn't do debates with that
(173:23) Alex Stein guy or whatever, but maybe a
(173:25) couple people I wouldn't do debates
(173:26) with, but I've never iced anybody out of
(173:27) any areas. If I wanted to initially, I
(173:29) could have just never done anything with
(173:31) his son. And I could have um said, you
(173:32) know, I'm not going to be on shows with
(173:33) him or I don't want to be in any space
(173:34) with him. And I don't know how much that
(173:36) probably would have kept him suppressed
(173:37) on Twitch for quite a while.
(173:38) >> Um or maybe indefinitely. maybe he would
(173:40) have never
(173:41) >> is the position that Hassan is like okay
(173:44) attractive not that charismatic kind of
(173:46) sucks at debate can't handle uh social
(173:49) interactions not a good networker isn't
(173:51) very smart and picks bad positions and
(173:53) is also the largest political streamer
(173:55) on the left I don't like that doesn't
(173:57) make any sense
(173:58) >> but there's a couple there's a couple
(173:59) things you stuck in there he is a great
(174:01) networker he
(174:02) >> yeah I think I think that the gifts that
(174:03) Hassan the gift the gifts that Hassan
(174:05) has is that right he occupies a position
(174:07) right now that is like the trendy
(174:09) popular position
(174:10) That helps a lot. Um,
(174:12) >> he's cool. Yeah.
(174:13) >> And then, um,
(174:14) >> I do think also,
(174:15) >> wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Hold
(174:16) on. Wait. No, that has nothing to do
(174:17) with being cool. If you're saying that,
(174:18) then you have no idea what it means to
(174:20) be cool. Saying that, if he is one of
(174:22) the front leaders of like the currently
(174:24) culturally popular trend of of ideology
(174:26) and he's not cool, how the [ __ ] can he
(174:28) be a great networker? And
(174:30) >> what does that have to do with being
(174:31) cool?
(174:32) >> Being at the fourth,
(174:33) >> he's a great networker because he pract
(174:35) because he practices networking. Because
(174:37) he practices networking. It's a
(174:38) deliberate choice. It's a style of
(174:40) engagement with
(174:42) >> Yeah. You don't need necessarily high
(174:44) charisma to bully people out of things.
(174:46) If you say, "I don't Do you think you
(174:47) need high Do you think you need high
(174:48) charisma to say, "Hey, if you ever talk
(174:50) to this person, I'm never talking to you
(174:51) again."
(174:51) >> I think you need to have a high charisma
(174:53) thing.
(174:53) >> No. I think you need to have something
(174:54) to have them. No. No. I think you need
(174:56) to have something.
(174:58) >> Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. My bad.
(174:59) >> Can I finish my last thought? at least
(175:01) into Mortal Kombat.
(175:02) >> You need to have something if people are
(175:05) going to listen you despite the fact
(175:06) that Destiny is a bigger streamer. Yes,
(175:08) you have to have something. It cannot we
(175:10) cannot have this idea of an
(175:12) >> Nobody listen. That's not true though.
(175:14) Nobody listened to Hassad when I was the
(175:15) bigger streamer. It was after it was
(175:17) after he gained a ton of viewership
(175:19) doing the 90day Fian stuff and then
(175:20) everything else that then people were
(175:21) like, "Oh shit." And then he had enough
(175:22) viewers to do it. It wasn't when you
(175:24) were small.
(175:25) >> Networker. Okay. I do want to I do want
(175:27) to I do want to move on a little bit and
(175:29) and get to some other people here. Hi,
(175:32) welcome to the stream. What do you got
(175:33) for us?
(175:33) >> How's it going? How's it going? I mean,
(175:35) not much. I kind of just got thrown in
(175:36) the conversation here to come on.
(175:38) >> I think it's better to focus on other
(175:40) things apart from debating whether or
(175:42) not a song is cool, but
(175:44) >> I really mad about this. I I don't know
(175:46) what to tell you.
(175:47) >> Well, this is the marketplace of ideas.
(175:49) >> Cool is like a porn. Okay. What's porn?
(175:51) Well, you know it when you see it. Same
(175:52) with cool. And look, if you've never
(175:54) seen pool and you don't know what it is,
(175:55) it's probably because you're a [ __ ]
(175:56) loser. I don't know what to tell you.
(176:00) >> Crazy word.
(176:00) >> I don't know about that. Um, I guess my
(176:02) my question to you, David, like the the
(176:04) topic I guess of the discussion that we
(176:07) had today was
(176:11) influencers within the Democratic Party
(176:14) and if they are a net positive or
(176:17) negative to the Democratic party. I'm
(176:19) talking about people like Assan, Kyle
(176:21) Kolinsky, Emma Vigland, all these people
(176:23) who are constantly constantly constantly
(176:26) harping on various
(176:28) >> the consulting class. Yeah, I'm aware.
(176:30) I'm aware.
(176:30) >> The consultant class
(176:32) >> that's brutal.
(176:33) >> Yeah.
(176:33) >> Well, I think them specifically are not
(176:35) very positive. But overall, I think the
(176:37) Democratic party does need to establish
(176:39) itself with the base of creators on
(176:41) social media who can echo the talking
(176:43) points. But I mean in a vagueland
(176:48) >> it's relatively difficult um maybe
(176:50) replicate the Republican model but I
(176:53) mean Jesus Christ if there was a chat
(176:54) with a bunch of liberal content creators
(176:57) if uh what's her name she got is she she
(177:01) exposed chorus
(177:03) >> Taylor
(177:05) >> if Taylor Loren got her hands on
(177:07) information there was a chat with a
(177:09) bunch of liberals connected to the DNC
(177:10) be over. So, I think the fact that we're
(177:12) held to a different standard when it
(177:13) comes to organizing makes it a little
(177:15) difficult, but
(177:18) we just got to do it somehow. Uh, build
(177:20) a net of creators who are competent, who
(177:22) are easygoing, who are charismatic, who
(177:24) can communicate the message effectively.
(177:26) Um, and if I'm being honest with you, I
(177:28) don't have a clear answer as to how
(177:29) we're going to do it, but we're going to
(177:31) make it happen. America, don't lose
(177:32) faith. Jesus,
(177:34) >> we're gonna
(177:35) >> feel so negative in here. Uh well uh
(177:37) since you have I I've I first saw you um
(177:41) when you were having a bit of a spat
(177:44) with uh some some Hassan fans. Um can
(177:48) you kind of tell people a little bit
(177:50) about your I guess the push back you've
(177:53) received from um going after that that
(177:56) side of the internet like uh what has
(177:58) that been like? Can you kind of inform
(178:00) my audience?
(178:02) Well, when I initially started, um I
(178:05) think I didn't do a really good job at
(178:07) uh being hated on by a large crowd of
(178:10) people, but now I don't really care too
(178:12) much. Um it is what it is. These people
(178:14) are incredibly unreasonable. They're not
(178:15) really open for conversation and I don't
(178:17) really think they're focused on bringing
(178:19) about some kind of substantive change or
(178:21) engaging in American politics. It's
(178:22) mainly just running cover for their
(178:24) favorite political streamer. I mean, I
(178:26) think the root cause of that is that
(178:29) while this is a good thing obviously,
(178:31) but us living in such a great country
(178:33) has brought about a level of privilege
(178:36) um that allows people to treat politics
(178:39) like a game, which is why there's like
(178:41) this team thing and why whenever I call
(178:44) out leftists, I'm now a disciple of sex
(178:46) pesty. I think it's it's it's truly
(178:49) disappointing. Uh, but at the end of the
(178:51) day,
(178:51) >> any of the orgies, though.
(178:52) >> Listen, listen, liberal,
(178:55) hold on. I didn't know that was going
(178:56) on. I wasn't aware of this until now.
(178:58) I'm not even aware of them, but they're
(178:59) happening somewhere. And I swear to God,
(179:00) as soon as I find him, guys, we're going
(179:02) to be publishing her. Don't worry. The
(179:04) issue is [ __ ] Kylie. Are you serious,
(179:05) disagreeing with me all the [ __ ]
(179:06) time, and she's the lane, and she's not
(179:08) letting me into any of them, and she's
(179:09) the ultimate gatekeeper on it. So, oh,
(179:10) she's not tragic.
(179:11) >> Never I think the the what what we need
(179:14) to do the solution at the end of the day
(179:16) is stand on liberal principles and
(179:18) really draw the line between what should
(179:21) and shouldn't be acceptable in American
(179:23) politics because the reason why people
(179:24) like Assan [ __ ] or Nick Fentes are
(179:26) given so much space to talk about these
(179:27) things is because the Overton window has
(179:29) expanded it hasn't just shifted uh to
(179:31) our normal conversation now centers
(179:33) around possibly u embracing
(179:35) authoritarian principles and
(179:38) expropriating capital from its private
(179:39) owners and washing the streets.
(179:42) with the blood of capitalists or
(179:43) whatever. And then on the right, it's
(179:45) mass deportations. It's disgusting
(179:47) bigotry. It's incredibly divisive
(179:48) rhetoric. Um, we just need individuals
(179:50) that can center the conversation back on
(179:52) bring about actual change and not just
(179:54) like constant infighting. So, I don't
(179:55) really give a [ __ ] whenever these people
(179:57) hop on my live stream and say that I'm
(179:59) like a crazy Zionist and I'm pro
(180:00) genocide without ever understanding my
(180:02) position on any of these subjects. These
(180:04) people are not serious and I don't think
(180:06) they speak to the general consensus
(180:08) around American politics either. They're
(180:09) just weird people relegated to a very
(180:12) odd corner of the internet that we
(180:13) occupy.
(180:14) >> The the debate I've seen going around in
(180:17) in the circles I kind of inhabit is how
(180:21) best to respond to people on the far
(180:23) left who do come after us. There is two
(180:26) schools of thought that I've seen. One
(180:28) is don't really talk about it. Don't
(180:30) give it oxygen. Just keep p keep
(180:33) messaging against MAGA. Keep messaging
(180:35) against Trump. keep messaging against
(180:37) the Republicans and just kind of let
(180:39) them do their thing. Don't boost it.
(180:41) >> Yeah.
(180:42) >> The other school of thought is no. When
(180:45) they come out and say dog [ __ ] things,
(180:47) call them dog [ __ ] Like a sister
(180:49) soldier moment where you call them out
(180:51) and draw a bright big line. What is your
(180:53) kind of thoughts on how politicians and
(180:58) influencers should handle that kind of
(181:00) thing? I'm just curious.
(181:01) >> I think it just boils down to being
(181:03) principled. Whenever somebody is trying
(181:05) to argue in favor of something that's
(181:08) author authoritarian or violates our
(181:10) constitution, there's a reason why we
(181:12) fight to uphold these things, it's
(181:13) because with these characteristics, a
(181:15) country can flourish and truly be a
(181:17) place of prosperity. So regardless of
(181:20) where these arguments are coming from,
(181:22) whether that be to my left or whe
(181:23) whether that be to my right, doesn't
(181:24) really matter. Uh because my principles
(181:26) are that of liberalism. I believe in
(181:29) civil liberties. I believe in the rule
(181:30) of law. I believe in democracy and most
(181:31) importantly anti-majoritaritarian
(181:33) institutions. So this idea of letting
(181:36) these people be, I don't think that's
(181:39) done us many favors. When it came to the
(181:41) far right, it was always ignore them,
(181:43) ignore them, don't platform him. And
(181:44) where's that gotten us? We now have Nick
(181:46) Fuentes getting tens of thousands of
(181:48) concurrent black viewers and capturing
(181:50) the minds of stupid impressionable young
(181:52) white men. And I don't want the same
(181:54) thing to happen on our side of the aisle
(181:56) by just ignoring Assan [ __ ] and not
(181:58) doing anything about it. 100% you should
(181:59) engage with these people.
(182:00) >> Also, just make sure if you're streaming
(182:02) on Twitch, end that stream, right? Right
(182:03) the [ __ ] now because uh probably not a
(182:05) good idea. Um Destiny's Yeah.
(182:08) >> Does it matter if it's a four person
(182:09) show?
(182:11) >> Turn off the Twitch stream. Is that Is
(182:13) there an echo by the way? Is that on me?
(182:15) >> No. Your microphone sounds exceptional.
(182:16) So, whoever helped you with that? Jesus.
(182:18) They definitely 100% the best microphone
(182:20) settings in the game.
(182:22) >> 100%, bro.
(182:24) >> Okay. Um
(182:25) >> Wait, can I ask you a really troubling
(182:26) question? You might not have to You
(182:28) don't have to answer it if you don't
(182:28) want to, but I feel like if you don't
(182:29) answer it,
(182:31) >> did you used to listen to a lot of Nick
(182:32) Fuentes?
(182:34) >> No.
(182:35) >> Oh, really? Okay. I feel like I hear the
(182:37) vocal. There's like a thing that a lot
(182:38) of people listen to. They sound like a
(182:39) certain vocal thing, but maybe not.
(182:40) Okay.
(182:41) >> I have a Nick Quentes. Maybe the
(182:42) impressions rub off on me, but I adopt
(182:44) the cadence or whatever, like at the end
(182:47) of everything I say. Ah, it's just me,
(182:48) bro.
(182:49) >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Just curious.
(182:51) >> Yep.
(182:52) >> Interesting. Um,
(182:53) >> do you wait when you do your call-in
(182:54) stuff, are you arguing more with people
(182:56) on the right or on the left when you do
(182:59) like right now?
(183:00) >> As of this moment, it's almost entirely
(183:03) people on the left. Recently, I've had a
(183:04) lot of morons on the right, but it's
(183:07) tough because I mean, I have Hassan on
(183:09) the little prompt thing, so obviously
(183:11) all those are going to come on the
(183:12) stream. Yeah,
(183:14) >> it's brutal.
(183:16) >> Do you find um
(183:19) Well, well, let me just ask you this.
(183:22) What makes you a liberal? Like you talk
(183:25) about the liberal values, right? But
(183:27) what what makes you a liberal rather
(183:29) than say, I don't know, a leftist? Like
(183:32) what what differentiates? Why didn't you
(183:34) go down like the leftist route? What
(183:35) made you kind of like, no, I'm I'm a
(183:37) liberal gang.
(183:39) >> Um I I guess well, when I initially
(183:42) started getting into politics, I had
(183:43) really strong convictions, but no facts
(183:46) or ideas to underguard them. Um, I
(183:49) remember growing up I saw all the
(183:51) disgusting things that Donald Trump
(183:52) said. And if I'm being honest with you,
(183:53) at one point I was like a communist,
(183:55) self-described communist. Uh, but when I
(183:58) went to Okay, man.
(183:59) >> Yep. Exactly. Bro, listen. When I went
(184:00) to the liberal indoctrination camps
(184:02) called schools and universities in
(184:04) America, not only did it moderate me
(184:06) when it came to economics, but like
(184:07) learning more about political science,
(184:09) things like that. I think pragmatism is
(184:11) incredibly important. Um, it's always
(184:13) important to be realistic, but they
(184:14) really helped me develop like my own set
(184:16) of principles. And from what I've seen,
(184:19) government expansion of government power
(184:21) never goes well. Having a one party
(184:23) system never goes well. Um, all for the
(184:25) purpose of political expedience, it
(184:26) always seems to backfire. Um, and just I
(184:29) mean, when it comes to my own
(184:30) principles, I personally love freedom. I
(184:32) think humans have their own like innate
(184:35) desire to do things that are
(184:36) self-preserving
(184:38) um that bring about some level of
(184:40) flourishing. And I feel ensuring that
(184:42) everybody has the right to
(184:43) self-determination and the American
(184:44) people are the supreme power of the
(184:46) land, I think ties in perfectly those
(184:48) principles and that desire. So
(184:51) >> cool. Um, if you want to hang out with
(184:54) us, we're going to take a few more
(184:55) callers and you're welcome to kind of
(184:56) just
(184:57) >> 100% king. I need this YouTube video to
(184:59) be longer than 10 minutes.
(185:00) >> Beautiful. Bring in a couple
(185:03) >> see what they got to say. I got a I
(185:06) don't know if I want to do uh any of uh
(185:08) that content today, but we got a
(185:10) gentleman if you want spicy that we
(185:12) could bring in. But we'll we'll bring in
(185:13) some of the other people around him
(185:14) first.
(185:15) >> Well, spicy about what?
(185:17) >> That's too vague. Spicy like what's
(185:19) what's
(185:20) >> he's the the number one Hassan defender.
(185:23) He has a dude. You should talk around.
(185:26) >> You should stop talking to this guy. Oh
(185:27) my god. I'm good. Yeah. Um
(185:30) >> because he's a he's like he's he's just
(185:31) like um I don't mind it for people that
(185:33) ideologically feel a certain way, but
(185:34) he's like a he's just a radator. Like he
(185:35) just repeats the same thing over and
(185:36) over again who's not responsible
(185:37) anything you say and then we'll just do
(185:38) that and then yeah, it's like a there's
(185:39) a style of like [ __ ] internet [ __ ]
(185:41) that does this. But
(185:43) >> okay, let me bring someone in and
(185:45) >> gonna have to end the Tik Tok live
(185:46) stream after that one. [ __ ]
(185:49) >> Oh, you're on TikTok, too. Oh, that's
(185:51) super brave. There goes your whole
(185:53) account for you. It's all good. It's all
(185:54) good. It's all good. It's all good.
(185:59) Okay,
(186:00) >> sir or ma'am,
(186:02) you're deafened on your end. Well, we're
(186:04) going to give him another few seconds.
(186:06) And uh if you're not, if you snooze, you
(186:08) lose, I guess. And uh we will bring one
(186:10) of the other lucky individuals on. Okay.
(186:13) Well,
(186:20) give me a second. There. The backstage
(186:23) is so big. I'm having trouble getting
(186:25) the people I want on. I'm gonna have to
(186:27) max this.
(186:30) >> Okay. Hello. You're live.
(186:31) >> Yeah.
(186:32) >> How's it going, folks?
(186:33) >> Hello.
(186:34) >> Hey, what do you got for us?
(186:36) >> Hey, um really enjoyed the show so far,
(186:38) everybody. Um I uh one of one of the
(186:42) things that I was hoping to ask uh NY is
(186:46) um you know, you you guys got into a
(186:49) pretty big debate about um what comes
(186:53) first, organic or inorganic? And then we
(186:56) spent a good bit of time talking about
(186:58) the topic of cool, which I I think, you
(187:01) know, to grind that down to where it was
(187:03) in the conversation was it was it was
(187:04) talking about organic, like somebody
(187:06) that can actually whip up the uh the
(187:10) following, which ties into that organic
(187:12) argument. And so my my question for NYSE
(187:15) primarily but also uh you Destiny is um
(187:20) we with identifying these problems with
(187:23) identifying the problems in the current
(187:25) uh liberal democrat media space um I I I
(187:30) I'm really curious on what you think
(187:33) needs to happen next. And as a as an
(187:36) example of like uh sort of my confusion
(187:39) in this is uh one of the things that I
(187:41) hear from you Destiny quite a lot is
(187:43) like that like the entire uh upper
(187:46) mainstream media at like stratosphere is
(187:48) [ __ ] and that needs to be reformed
(187:51) first in order for us to make any
(187:53) progress. And I I'm I'm not sure that
(187:56) like that's exactly your position, but
(187:58) that is the way it reads to me. And so
(188:00) if I could have some clarification on
(188:01) that as well. Do you want the
(188:03) clarification from him first or me to
(188:05) answer your question first?
(188:06) >> Uh, you you to answer first, please.
(188:08) Thank you.
(188:09) >> Yeah, for sure. Um, okay. You asked me
(188:12) next steps, right? Like what do we do
(188:13) about that?
(188:14) >> Yes.
(188:14) >> Um, yes.
(188:15) >> Yeah. So, I think what we do about that
(188:17) is um we we we stop being careerist and
(188:23) get behind each other and like really
(188:24) try to support each other. Like um
(188:26) probably one of the things that I think
(188:27) I get like the most frustrated with like
(188:30) different liberal factions for is that
(188:32) we just like don't really unify. Um and
(188:34) I think we just have to be better at
(188:35) unifying. We have to like kind of put
(188:37) their like quibbles of what's cool or
(188:39) not cool aside a little bit and then try
(188:41) to get behind each other. We have to
(188:45) convince for me I'm trying to convince
(188:47) liberals that image matters actually and
(188:49) it is really powerful and it's a
(188:51) massively underutilized tool in the tool
(188:53) belt and I want liberals to use it
(188:54) better because I think that we can
(188:58) >> and that's great
(189:00) >> um
(189:00) >> with TBA. That's what I'm doing.
(189:03) >> That that's awesome. Um and then uh uh
(189:06) Destiny, if you could uh expand on sort
(189:08) of like uh clarifying uh sort of my
(189:11) interpretation like the the doomer pill.
(189:15) >> Yeah, I think that the first thing that
(189:16) needs to happen is the recognition needs
(189:18) to be there. I think once the
(189:19) recognition has happened, I think that
(189:21) there's a whole bunch of cascading
(189:23) effects that will come from that. So
(189:25) once people have recognized that these
(189:27) two media environments are not the same,
(189:29) um, one thing that we'll immediately see
(189:31) less of are liberals being tricked into
(189:34) going on to far-left platforms and then
(189:36) getting the most hostile fuckyourface
(189:38) interview ever. Um, a second thing that
(189:41) will happen is I think liberal
(189:42) candidates will stop working with like
(189:44) leftist people because the understanding
(189:46) will be that you know there like
(189:48) traditionally speaking when you talk
(189:50) about solidarity solidarity is supposed
(189:52) to be even though we have differences in
(189:53) some areas we can come together on this
(189:55) really important issue but leftists use
(189:57) solidarity as a way to exclude people if
(189:59) you don't come together on every issue
(190:00) at least the ones that that they think
(190:02) are the most important ones. So like
(190:03) it'll stop that. You won't have the
(190:05) incorporation of these people that are
(190:06) hostile elements to your party, into
(190:07) campaigns anymore, into media
(190:09) environments anymore. You won't have
(190:10) liberals being tricked and then going on
(190:12) to these shows and then getting
(190:13) completely flabbergasted because they're
(190:14) getting the most [ __ ] you in the face
(190:15) interviews ever. Um, I think in the
(190:18) mainstream and then the big alternative
(190:20) media world, I think that they'll stop
(190:22) viewing these candidates favorably.
(190:23) Like, listen, I think that or as
(190:25) favorably as are. Money is great. I
(190:27) guess he's doing a good job, but like I
(190:28) don't think we need every single liberal
(190:30) content creator to be sucking him off
(190:32) every single time he tweets the most
(190:33) basic [ __ ] in the world. Like I feel
(190:35) like right now if he were to tweet out
(190:36) like guys there was a broken down car
(190:38) yesterday and I went out on Sixth Street
(190:39) and I fixed it. You would have like
(190:41) Mockler all of Midas touch Barack Obama
(190:44) cheer would come back everybody like
(190:45) this is the coolest [ __ ] thing I've
(190:46) ever seen. Like we probably don't need
(190:48) to glaze them that hard especially
(190:49) considering we never even glaze our own
(190:50) people that hard. Um, but like yeah, I
(190:52) think there's like a cascading set of
(190:53) effects like this. And then also
(190:55) hopefully if like the public is aware of
(190:57) it, once you've pointed a thing out,
(190:59) it's actually really hard for people not
(191:00) to notice it as much and then people's
(191:02) behavior will change. If you point out
(191:03) to people that notice how on Fox News,
(191:06) notice how on these leftist platforms,
(191:07) they never challenge their own. They
(191:08) never ask them a tough question. They
(191:10) never actually talk about the like this
(191:11) or that. I think when people have that
(191:12) awareness, there'll be more pressure
(191:13) from people that watch those platforms
(191:15) to do something about it because like,
(191:16) hey, yeah, I kind of noticed this. like
(191:17) why aren't you guys? It won't be huge,
(191:18) but I think there'll be a whole
(191:19) cascading set of things like this
(191:20) that'll happen once the awareness is is
(191:22) widespread. But the awareness has to has
(191:24) to happen first.
(191:25) >> One of the things that Republicans did
(191:27) back in the day um that I think that set
(191:30) the stage for where we are at now is
(191:34) this relentless pressure of the media to
(191:37) go hard against liberals. I remember
(191:39) again watching you can watch the old RNC
(191:42) conventions back in the 80s and things
(191:44) where they would chant at the liberal
(191:46) media like tell the truth, tell the
(191:48) truth, tell the truth. And the response
(191:50) to that from a lot of journalists was
(191:51) like yes, maybe we do need to be more
(191:53) balanced and things like that. So they
(191:55) kind of leaned into if they wanted to be
(191:57) seen as someone who is fair and
(191:59) balanced, they would attack the
(192:01) Democrats. They would attack
(192:02) >> Can I also just real quick on that to
(192:03) support that? You should always look at
(192:05) what they fight against and then you
(192:07) should look at how they fight. So what
(192:08) you just said there, remember when when
(192:11) Biden, who's supposedly a scenile old
(192:13) man who can't handle anything
(192:14) whatsoever, the Republicans had no
(192:17) problem with I think it was Marjorie
(192:18) Taylor Green or was it Lauren or was it
(192:20) Boowbert or whatever, who was like
(192:21) screaming at Biden during the State of
(192:23) the Union that one time?
(192:24) >> I think it was both of them.
(192:26) >> It might it might have been both of
(192:26) them. Yeah. Nobody had any problem with
(192:28) this, right? The Republicans were fine
(192:30) with it. They weren't calling for decor
(192:31) or whatever else. when the Democrats
(192:33) were like holding up signs and stuff and
(192:36) then the the one guy the one black um
(192:38) house member I don't remember his name
(192:40) >> what was his name David
(192:41) >> D not only did they remove him but they
(192:44) censured him in Congress like excuse me
(192:47) so like you can see how they fight with
(192:49) disrespect with screaming with agitation
(192:51) and then you can see what they don't
(192:52) want which is against them you know uh
(192:55) fighting agitation whatever else so it's
(192:56) it's always good to keep these things in
(192:58) mind I think yeah
(192:59) >> so a follow-up question on that
(193:01) >> real quick But then we do have to
(193:03) >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Um so
(193:05) follow-up question on that is um I was
(193:08) uh on the panel la uh last night with
(193:11) the DNC uh political consultant and one
(193:15) of the biggest things that utterly
(193:17) surprised me was when he was he was
(193:20) talking about uh the problem with the
(193:22) Democrat media system and new media. He
(193:25) seemed to actually very accurately
(193:27) understand the situation. He seemed to
(193:29) completely understand where the right
(193:31) was and where we are and a little bit of
(193:34) where the left was and where we were
(193:35) lacking. And then what blew my [ __ ]
(193:37) mind was he was like, "Oh yeah,
(193:39) everybody knows this. This isn't I'm not
(193:41) like ahead of people." Like every
(193:43) everybody in the DNC has sort of come to
(193:45) this understanding and they know that
(193:47) it's going on. So my question for you
(193:49) and I, you know, as you pointed out with
(193:51) my first question is understanding the
(193:53) obstacle first so you can get over it.
(193:55) Is so it is it like is it corruption?
(193:59) Like is that what it is? Because I I
(194:01) >> curious. Wait, what are you referring
(194:02) to? Who who were you talking to? What
(194:03) was this who was this conversation?
(194:04) >> Uh Dennis
(194:06) >> Dennis Porter.
(194:07) >> Dennis Porter uh last night. Very
(194:09) interesting conversation. I think you uh
(194:11) you'd find a lot of interest in it. Um,
(194:13) but I I um I I what I'm wondering, you
(194:16) know, we talk so often about how, okay,
(194:20) well, we we have these mega donors and
(194:22) they're pouring money into this, but
(194:23) when you when there are the handful of
(194:26) content creators that show up at the DNC
(194:28) thing, it's [ __ ] dog [ __ ] There's
(194:30) nothing good there. And and I'm just
(194:32) wondering like obviously you have people
(194:34) that are gatekeeping, which is a problem
(194:36) and that we need to get over it, but I
(194:37) mean like is it more than gatekeeping?
(194:39) Is is it like are are do do you have a
(194:42) read on that? Because I I I I'm kind of
(194:44) concerned about that that it they're
(194:46) like artificial barriers from inside
(194:50) that isn't even just this uh elitist
(194:52) elitist gatekeep.
(194:55) >> Just from my personal impression talking
(194:56) to people, I don't I I would be curious
(194:58) to hear what he said, but I have not
(195:00) gotten the impression well not that I
(195:01) wouldn't say I haven't got impression
(195:02) they absolutely don't have a macro
(195:04) understanding. There'll be people that
(195:05) understand like discrete parts of the
(195:06) problem, but I don't think they have a
(195:07) holistic thing about what's happening. I
(195:11) I haven't gotten that impression at all
(195:12) unless that's changed very recently
(195:13) within like the past week or two.
(195:14) >> Bishop, always a pleasure. And
(195:16) >> thank you everybody.
(195:17) >> Byebye.
(195:19) >> Okay, we got Let's see who is next. You
(195:24) know, I was about to bring this guy on,
(195:26) but then he just left. I knew he was a
(195:28) DSA member, too. Oh well. Uh let's bring
(195:30) on this guy instead.
(195:34) Hello, you're live.
(195:36) >> Oh, sweet. Uh, real quick, David, love
(195:39) your content. Think you're an
(195:40) inspiration for younger generations.
(195:41) Keep it on. Keep it on. Um, Erdite, your
(195:46) window bay al cove. I absolutely want to
(195:48) steal it from you. Just keep that in
(195:49) mind. Wick, thank you for having me on.
(195:52) And Destiny, would you ever debate
(195:53) Westside Tyler?
(195:56) >> I don't know. I probably not.
(195:59) Is he like what would he
(196:02) >> Well, aside from threatening to kill me
(196:03) and the also other weird [ __ ] he said.
(196:05) Um, what does he want to debate on?
(196:09) >> Um, I mean there's a plethora of I guess
(196:11) prompts that could be come up with or
(196:12) surmise. Probably have Wick as a
(196:14) moderator or something, but I don't
(196:16) think he ever said he wanted to actually
(196:17) kill you.
(196:18) >> I I I just want to make clear I don't
(196:20) think that would be a good um I would
(196:22) not make a good moderator for that
(196:23) because he just doesn't like Westside
(196:26) Tyler is a dangerous person. I I want
(196:28) everyone to understand that he is a
(196:30) dangerous person. He has some sort of
(196:32) something wrong is legitimately wrong
(196:34) with his brain.
(196:36) >> Do you really think so?
(196:37) >> Yes.
(196:37) >> Well, he definitely does all that that
(196:38) stuff, but I feel like I he comes up to
(196:40) me as just a massive internet troll.
(196:41) That's why I'm not as interested, I
(196:43) guess. But
(196:45) >> I don't I don't know how I don't know.
(196:47) Like I knew when I was in the military,
(196:49) I knew guys like him and we knew like
(196:52) >> there were he didn't he met up with
(196:53) North and nobody died, right?
(196:55) >> They were. Yeah. But
(196:58) >> someone and he didn't kill them isn't
(197:00) exactly like a high bar to clear.
(197:04) >> I just I don't know if uh
(197:07) >> he's someone I would feel comfortable
(197:10) ever like having on seriously again.
(197:14) He's just
(197:14) >> How did his debate with uh Loner Box go?
(197:18) >> Somebody said watch his loner debate.
(197:20) Was that a [ __ ] show or did that go
(197:21) okay?
(197:21) >> I didn't I didn't see the the loner box.
(197:23) >> I think it was a couple years ago.
(197:25) >> Yeah. Okay. Is that what you got, Uncle
(197:27) Muffles?
(197:29) >> Uh, yeah, pretty much. Yep.
(197:30) >> Okay.
(197:31) >> Wait, is this guy Is this Westside Tyler
(197:32) on a voice changer?
(197:34) >> I don't think so.
(197:36) >> Kill any of us yet, so probably not.
(197:38) >> It definitely feels like you're using a
(197:39) voice stranger.
(197:41) >> Uh, I mean, I've sounded like this since
(197:43) I was about 16, so I don't think so.
(197:46) >> Holy [ __ ]
(197:46) >> I can talk solo.
(197:51) >> I'm actually not a bass. I'm more of a
(197:53) baritone, but I'll try. I can talk so
(197:57) low.
(197:59) >> Okay, wonderful. I'll talk to you later.
(198:01) Okay, buddy.
(198:02) >> All right. Peace.
(198:04) >> Okay.
(198:06) >> Okay, now that you've fixed your audio.
(198:08) Hello.
(198:08) >> Welcome back.
(198:09) >> Hey,
(198:11) I think you maybe got somewhat
(198:13) different, but uh
(198:15) >> we brought you on earlier and you didn't
(198:17) respond.
(198:18) >> Oh, I'm so sorry. I think I was eating
(198:20) dinner. Yeah. Hey, how's it going? Uh,
(198:23) I wanted to basically go over some of
(198:25) the things that Kylo was talking about.
(198:27) Um, she's saying that, you know,
(198:29) liberals don't really have the, you
(198:31) know, the sauce or, you know, they don't
(198:33) have the motion, so to speak.
(198:37) >> But, but the thing is is that like
(198:39) liberals don't really quote unquote need
(198:42) that motion. What they need is
(198:43) structure. Liberals are structure. They
(198:45) are basically like the backbone. when
(198:48) you know the kids go and break [ __ ] like
(198:50) DSA like uh MAGA Republicans us liberals
(198:53) are kind of there in order to fix
(198:56) everything and that's how we get popular
(198:59) that's how you know we actually are able
(199:02) to you know build uh quote unquote our
(199:05) sauce right
(199:06) >> but don't you think we could be good at
(199:09) both
(199:09) >> do both yep truth
(199:12) >> the only the thing is that basil yes I
(199:16) agree but
(199:18) Barack Obama was a liberal and also had
(199:20) a ton of motion. Like I think it's
(199:21) possible to have both. I think it's it's
(199:22) mostly a training issue. I think it's
(199:24) mostly just a skill issue that can be
(199:26) built. Frankly,
(199:28) >> I I I don't believe because what is like
(199:31) an example of it being built is my
(199:33) thing. Like how
(199:34) >> I was the [ __ ] loserist piece of [ __ ]
(199:36) before Nick found me. Like I was like
(199:38) super type A. I was like everything that
(199:39) I would describe as like what liberals
(199:42) kind of were like uh super type a kind
(199:44) of east coast elite like not very cool
(199:47) definitely people didn't want to hang
(199:48) out with me but I was a workhorse and I
(199:49) got [ __ ] done and I fixed everything
(199:50) right and I was like a balanced and
(199:52) smart woman and then I dated Nick and he
(199:55) taught me like the finer things of life
(199:57) like dancing and partying and having fun
(200:00) with people and having hobbies and like
(200:01) getting better at fashion and I realized
(200:04) that these things matter and they can be
(200:06) useful and have a important utility.
(200:08) Um, I agree that Liberals built
(200:10) everything. Um, and I think they're not
(200:11) winning the populace because they have
(200:12) no motion in part. It's not the only
(200:14) thing obviously, but that's the thing
(200:16) I'm championing on because I think it
(200:17) matters and I think it's a very easy
(200:19) area to just squeeze a little more juice
(200:21) for liberals to succeed.
(200:23) >> I mean
(200:25) I mean I don't disagree. I just don't
(200:30) like how exactly would you want to do
(200:33) this? Like I mean like for the DSA and
(200:36) for MAGA both they use populist
(200:38) rhetoric. They use like cult mentality
(200:41) in order to push up their sort of uh
(200:44) candidates or their sort of ideology
(200:46) primarily. The liberals ideology is that
(200:49) we fix what they break. So what exactly
(200:53) >> I think liberalism is more than that.
(200:54) Yeah. I think liberalism is more than
(200:56) that. So I think like civil liberties
(200:57) and strong institutions are part of
(200:59) liberalism. Like one really simple thing
(201:00) that I would love to see happen more
(201:02) often is I would like to see basically
(201:04) every single Democratic candidate get
(201:06) proper training on new media so that
(201:08) they can succeed, right? Because I
(201:09) actually think liberalism trends really
(201:11) well. I think I'm a good example of it.
(201:12) I grew my platform from zero to 200K in
(201:15) a year. So I I I think we can up it. I
(201:18) think uh Stephen, he upped his fashion
(201:20) game. I think it was awesome. I think
(201:22) his charcoal gray shirt that he wore the
(201:24) other day, fantastic. It looks really
(201:25) good on him. It's just like it's like
(201:27) little small things like this and then
(201:28) really integrated things like new media
(201:30) strategy. It's both dress better.
(201:32) >> Okay. So, would you say like someone
(201:33) like Oop would like be someone that sort
(201:36) of has that sauce.
(201:38) >> Yeah, I think he's a great speaker. I'm
(201:40) curious to see how he is in like organic
(201:43) situations like off the cuff. Um, but if
(201:45) he could be good in that like Pete
(201:46) Buddha Judge is really good at that. We
(201:48) should throw him on to like Comedy Bro
(201:49) podcasts and he has to dress down for
(201:51) example when he goes on party uh Comedy
(201:53) Bro. So, like don't have the suit tucked
(201:55) all the way up. Try to just a little bit
(201:56) more casual. Um, I think that that would
(201:58) be fantastic if he's good at it. If he's
(202:01) not super good at that, definitely don't
(202:03) put him on those platforms. We'll find
(202:04) other spaces for him to go into that
(202:05) he'd be strong at. Like Jubilee would be
(202:07) probably great for him.
(202:08) >> Uh, Tongus, do you have anything else?
(202:11) Did that answer your question?
(202:13) >> Uh, I mean, kind of. I I think just more
(202:16) I think I think what Kyla is kind of
(202:18) getting at is that more of like she's
(202:20) thinking more in the internet sort of
(202:22) sense of the term where I personally am
(202:24) thinking like politically like I would
(202:26) like my candidate to basically be
(202:28) politically popular compared to internet
(202:30) popularity which is I feel the main
(202:32) problem with a lot of the candidates
(202:33) these days who will focus primarily on
(202:37) oh how do I get the most views? How do I
(202:38) get the most clicks? I would like to go
(202:41) back uh to a sort of like political
(202:44) system in which we have, you know,
(202:47) [ __ ] boring politics. I miss that
(202:50) because every single time there's
(202:52) somebody famous or whatever it is, like
(202:54) yes, it gets a lot of clicks. It gets a
(202:56) lot of attention, but this attention,
(202:58) you know, it's usually built off the
(203:01) backs of like extremist BS or like
(203:03) accelerationism or whatever it is. You
(203:06) know,
(203:06) >> I'm curious, do you think the halo
(203:08) effect works in politics?
(203:11) Do you
(203:11) >> just real just last exchange and then we
(203:14) do have to
(203:15) >> So sorry. Yeah.
(203:16) >> Do you know what I mean by that?
(203:17) >> You know. No, I I don't. I'm sorry. Do
(203:19) >> you know what the halo effect is?
(203:21) >> No, I don't.
(203:22) >> No worries. Let me explain it. So the
(203:23) halo effect is basically this thing that
(203:24) we've studied. So if you have two people
(203:26) and one person's taller or shorter,
(203:28) people tend to think the taller person
(203:29) is more respectable. If you have two
(203:30) same people but one's more attractive,
(203:32) people think the attractive person is
(203:33) probably nicer and better. um if the one
(203:36) person's dressed better versus one
(203:37) person's dressed more slummy. They often
(203:39) think the nicer dressed person. All of
(203:41) this is what I'm putting together into
(203:42) aesthetic. Even how we communicate. If
(203:44) you're a better uh if you use more vocal
(203:47) inflection and more narrative style in
(203:48) your communication, people think that
(203:50) you're smarter, for example, um because
(203:52) you're a better communicator. Charisma,
(203:54) right? I think if the halo effect works
(203:56) in classrooms and it works in job
(203:59) employment and it works in social
(204:01) networking, it also works in politics.
(204:04) Um
(204:07) >> I uh I mean do you feel this has been
(204:10) tested and like this is like 100%. I
(204:12) mean we
(204:13) >> you want to know a crazy study? The
(204:15) average height of world leaders is
(204:16) insane. It's so tall. They're so [ __ ]
(204:19) tall. All of them. Even though the
(204:21) average height for men is like I think
(204:22) it's like 5'7. I I would need to look it
(204:24) up. But on average world leaders are
(204:26) significantly taller. And I think I
(204:27) actually think that this is in part halo
(204:29) effect. And I think the halo effect has
(204:31) a a mutual effect and and I don't want
(204:32) to get into it and like yap for too
(204:34) long. But yeah, I think halo effect is
(204:35) important and I think it's something
(204:36) that liberals are really not squeezing.
(204:38) That would be like one thing that we
(204:39) could get better at. Second thing is new
(204:41) media. If you already have, you know, if
(204:44) you're fat and you've lost weight and
(204:45) gotten muscle or you look better or
(204:47) you're dressing better or you're a
(204:48) little bit more interesting and funny to
(204:49) listen to, you're going to be more
(204:50) successful on new media. I agree with
(204:52) you that it would probably be better if
(204:54) politicians didn't have to do that, but
(204:55) they do have to right now. the the the
(204:58) downside of that, just to chime in here,
(205:01) is when we look for these qualities and
(205:04) try to select for these qualities, we
(205:07) get people like Graham Platner
(205:09) >> who again was all because, oh, he looks
(205:12) like the white working-class guy. He
(205:14) looks like the guy that's going to be
(205:15) popular and things like that. So, they
(205:17) assumed all sorts of things to him and
(205:20) well, here we are, right? Um, it was a
(205:24) disaster.
(205:24) >> I agree. So this is why I think liberals
(205:26) are better because we can do both. We
(205:27) can se select people that have a
(205:29) backbone and moral like etiquette and we
(205:33) can give them a stylist and a young
(205:35) person who's good at new media. I think
(205:36) we can actually just do both of it. I I
(205:38) don't think we have to sell out to like
(205:39) pieces of [ __ ] um for it. I think the
(205:41) DSA's been doing that because honestly I
(205:43) think they're disorganized and they're
(205:45) just stumbling on charismatic people who
(205:47) are good grassroots and then throwing
(205:48) themselves behind them. I think that's
(205:50) why they're successful.
(205:50) >> Sure. I just want to make sure that
(205:51) we're selecting first for the uh good
(205:54) politics, good person, and then looking
(205:57) at the halo. Like it's just like just
(206:00) give them halo after select only for
(206:02) that and then just drop them down. All
(206:03) right. Yeah, do it.
(206:05) >> Yeah.
(206:06) >> I think we automatically have better
(206:08) vetting Sanders than Bernie Sanders when
(206:09) it comes to who is it that we want to
(206:10) endorse.
(206:11) >> I mean, he's endorsed Tulsi Gabbard. I
(206:13) remember you see the pictures of her of
(206:15) of Bernie's hand. Do you remember those
(206:18) things? This is crazy. He has a terrible
(206:21) track record when it comes to these
(206:22) things. Um, pot David, what do you got
(206:26) for us, sir?
(206:27) >> Hey. Um, yeah. So, I actually have been
(206:29) doing a lot of thinking. I feel like you
(206:30) guys are talking a lot around like kind
(206:33) of the like further down the line than
(206:35) where I think the problem actually lies
(206:37) and like how we can understand this a
(206:38) lot better. Um, basically I've been
(206:41) doing a lot of thinking about like how
(206:43) we kind of got to this era of politics
(206:46) from in the first place. And are you
(206:49) guys aware of like the difference
(206:50) between normal versus like regime
(206:52) politics?
(206:55) >> Okay. So basically it's this idea that
(206:57) normal politics is when you debate in a
(206:59) political environment about you know
(207:01) what the tax rates should be what you
(207:03) know the actual like kind of policy
(207:05) positions and you all agree like in
(207:07) general where your country should be the
(207:08) core values that kind of stuff. regime
(207:10) politics is when it falls into the
(207:12) category of, you know, core principles,
(207:14) the actual structure of your government,
(207:16) you know, who should have rights, all
(207:18) that kind of stuff. And
(207:19) >> wait, just random, did you listen to my
(207:21) uh my Gary Casper talk yesterday?
(207:23) >> I I didn't actually catch that.
(207:25) >> Oh, it's funny because he actually he
(207:26) brings up this exact point that he
(207:28) remembers like debates in the past
(207:29) between Reagan and,
(207:30) >> you know, other politicians in America
(207:31) were like substantive debates on like,
(207:33) you know, how do we alleviate these
(207:35) issues or blah blah blah, but now all
(207:36) the debates are like what is America as
(207:38) a country? Like should we be doing
(207:39) anything like Yeah.
(207:40) >> And basically in like as early as like
(207:43) 2017 and 2018, a lot earlier too, but
(207:46) like
(207:46) >> you can find I don't know if you know
(207:48) what the Claremont Institute is. It's
(207:49) another right-wing thing like the
(207:50) Heritage Foundation and that kind of
(207:51) thing. And there's a lot of essayist
(207:53) writing in there specifically about this
(207:55) and they're basically talking in Trump's
(207:56) first term as if like we're already on
(207:58) the brink of civil war and like regime
(208:00) politics and the Democratic Party is
(208:01) taking over and whatnot. So they've had
(208:03) like decades of building up this
(208:05) narrative of regime politics and
(208:06) understanding kind of like where they're
(208:08) arguing from. The left like the far-left
(208:10) people also coincidentally have been
(208:13) like in regime politics. They're on
(208:15) they're questioning the core fundamental
(208:16) values and all that kind of stuff. And I
(208:18) think that the the reason why the right
(208:20) and the left are both excelling and at
(208:23) this where the liberals aren't is that
(208:25) the liberals have been complacent. We
(208:26) don't operate in regime politics. For
(208:28) the longest time, we've been complacent
(208:30) and just operating under normal politic
(208:32) framework. But when you're in an
(208:34) environment where everyone else is
(208:35) arguing in regime politics, that's where
(208:38) this sort of like cool factor comes in.
(208:40) It's exciting. People want to join that
(208:42) conversation because it feels much
(208:44) better, but I think it's much like
(208:47) that's closer to why you get this divide
(208:48) and it has less to do with necessarily
(208:50) cool factor and more to do with this
(208:52) sort of divide between regime and normal
(208:54) politics.
(208:56) I I think that's super Yeah, I'm super
(208:58) interested. I obviously not familiar
(209:00) with it, but it feels like it's mapping
(209:01) on pretty closely. The the cool fact for
(209:03) me is to somebody who inspires and has
(209:05) motion. Um, which is like a pretty broad
(209:07) thing. It's ambiguous, but I think we
(209:09) know it when we see it. Um, I I am
(209:11) interested to know if that's the case,
(209:13) especially because then it's like, okay,
(209:14) well, that makes me hopeful of maybe we
(209:16) can go back to talking about policy
(209:18) soon. That would be awesome. That would
(209:19) be better, actually. Um, but that's not
(209:21) the game that we're in right now. And so
(209:23) >> yeah, I think that in order for liberals
(209:25) to actually kind of like get to that
(209:26) point, like uh David, other David, I'm
(209:29) also David. Funny. But uh
(209:32) >> but basically what other Dave was
(209:33) talking about how him wanting to like
(209:35) have more liberals being like talking
(209:37) about the core values of liberalism and
(209:38) sort of like coming back to like
(209:40) actually being able to defend why we
(209:42) believe the things we believe. I think
(209:44) that's what we're missing and why it
(209:45) feels like we're not cool because we
(209:47) can't there's a lot of people like can't
(209:49) talk to those like really kind of
(209:51) fundamental and give people fun cool
(209:54) reasons to like believe in the core
(209:56) >> real quick man we lose these
(209:59) conversations because we don't even go
(210:00) into these conversations
(210:01) >> exactly yeah I think we got to fight
(210:03) MAGA we got to fight Trump we got to
(210:05) fight things so we've seated so much
(210:06) ground to the far left right that are
(210:08) like well we are going to actually get
(210:11) things that you care about in these
(210:12) things where liberals actively want to
(210:16) push policies that people care about and
(210:19) will make people better and will make
(210:21) people's lives better, that will make
(210:22) them their goods more affordable, right,
(210:25) by making gas more affordable.
(210:27) >> Can I ask you a question, Wick? Um,
(210:28) >> on me. Okay, go ahead.
(210:29) >> Yeah. Wick, why do you think um when you
(210:32) think of the left talking about how
(210:34) they're going to do cool stuff, what are
(210:36) they usually like pointing to? I guess
(210:39) >> what they usually do is they say there's
(210:42) a group of people who are holding you
(210:44) back that are taking things from you.
(210:46) The billionaire class, right? The
(210:48) Epstein class, all these things. And
(210:50) they are out there and we are just going
(210:52) to make sure we fight against them and
(210:54) get you Medicare.
(210:55) >> And who do they say? Who do they say is
(210:56) part of the Epstein class or whatever?
(210:58) >> Um,
(211:00) Democrats, all these.
(211:01) >> Okay. So, this is one of the reasons why
(211:02) when I talk about the [ __ ] tit for
(211:04) tat or whatever the um like why we
(211:06) should fight from the far left is
(211:07) because I think that in part of part of
(211:09) what happens when you fight, it's not
(211:10) just a matter of excluding people from
(211:12) your political movement, but I think
(211:13) that you clarify and and sometimes even
(211:16) discover what your foundational moral
(211:19) principles are as you do the fighting
(211:21) because you differentiate yourself both
(211:23) in your own mind and into in the minds
(211:25) of other people from the other people
(211:26) that you're fighting against. The reason
(211:28) why the far left is able to kind of grow
(211:29) in the Democratic party, one of the ways
(211:31) they do it is not by distinguishing from
(211:33) Republicans, but by saying, "Here's what
(211:34) the Democrats suck at, and this is what
(211:36) we're going to do differently." And as a
(211:37) result of all that fighting, they
(211:39) discover or they establish positions
(211:41) that are meaningfully different than
(211:43) ours that they're like willing to
(211:44) virulently defend and then fight and and
(211:47) then die on. And when we're afraid of
(211:48) fighting like those people on the far
(211:50) left, I think we don't do a good job at
(211:52) discovering like can I defend like why
(211:54) are why is medicine sold from private
(211:56) companies and like why is it so
(211:58) important that like is rainbow
(211:59) capitalism bad and like should we should
(212:01) anybody have to pay for anything? And
(212:02) it's like we have no idea what the
(212:03) answers are and being too afraid to
(212:04) fight the people for the left of us like
(212:05) robs us of the ability I think to
(212:07) discover that. That's part of why I
(212:08) think fighting is is good with other
(212:09) people. Yeah.
(212:10) >> Yeah. I mean, I think I think what we're
(212:12) like what we're kind of talking about in
(212:13) many ways is that the Democrats often
(212:15) fail to have an identity. And I think
(212:17) part of this lack of identity is because
(212:19) a some of it gets robbed by leftists,
(212:21) but then yeah, we don't really fight and
(212:22) cling and advocate for being like, "No,
(212:24) this is who we are." Like most people
(212:26) when they say, "Are you a liberal?" They
(212:27) say, "No." And I go, "Do you know what a
(212:29) liberal is?" And they also say,
(212:31) >> "No." Right? So, um, I think lack of
(212:34) identity is a really big problem,
(212:37) flagging the Democrat part of it,
(212:38) specifically liberalism that Yeah, I
(212:40) think David brought up.
(212:42) >> I think we need to just be just really
(212:45) bold about saying, "Yeah, I'm a [ __ ]
(212:47) liberal." Because liberalism is the
(212:48) reason that you have night. Liberalism
(212:50) is the reason that you can sleep in
(212:52) peace at night. And the wars that are
(212:54) happening are all everywhere else except
(212:56) for here. liberals is the reason that
(212:58) you have um
(213:01) such good access to cheap goods, right?
(213:04) And when things when people act
(213:06) illiberally, things get marketably
(213:08) worse. Look at ICE. Look at how they're
(213:10) acting. Look at Trump. Look at his war
(213:13) in Iran. And and people just need to be
(213:16) bold about it. But people are scared to
(213:18) call themselves a liberal because that's
(213:20) seen as not cool. And having those like
(213:23) conversations and defending those points
(213:24) is where like your passion come from
(213:26) comes from, right? Like the passion in
(213:28) politics and like these conversations,
(213:30) these spaces a lot of times come from
(213:32) when you share core principles with
(213:33) people and you really like relate to
(213:35) them on a fundamental level. And I think
(213:36) that's like really what we should be
(213:38) hammering um to like bring kind of drum
(213:40) up more like liberal. Liberals are cool,
(213:42) you know? They are [ __ ] cool.
(213:45) >> 100%. David, that was so best.
(213:47) >> Yeah. [ __ ] yeah. Well, David Pots David,
(213:50) thank you for
(213:51) >> pots. David G, that's like my handle on
(213:53) all forms of social media, but like I
(213:56) just I docked myself on purpose up front
(213:59) so that no one can do it. So, it's like
(214:01) that's what my name is. So, you know,
(214:04) >> thanks for thanks for calling in, buddy.
(214:05) Okay.
(214:06) >> Yeah, of course. You guys have a good
(214:07) day. Bye.
(214:07) >> You said we're probably make sure you
(214:10) and then I'm probably gonna call it. I
(214:13) got you. Yeah. Um, let's see.
(214:20) Orange Boy Wiltco.
(214:23) >> Oh, hello. Uh, yeah. Hey, let me just uh
(214:26) mute your guys's uh stream real quick.
(214:28) Oh god. All right. Uh um sorry it's a
(214:32) little bit late over here. So um
(214:35) >> we're getting the late night the late
(214:37) night DJ voice now.
(214:38) >> Oh, I'm sorry.
(214:40) >> Hello ladies
(214:42) and enjoy the next set. So yeah, I'm
(214:44) also I'm a little bit [ __ ] so I
(214:46) might lose my train of thought a lot.
(214:47) Okay. Um
(214:51) >> uh Okay. So, um Destiny, you say
(214:55) something about like um the reason why
(214:58) uh the right wing have like such like a
(215:00) crazy apparatus is because um uh
(215:05) have a crazy apparatus is because of
(215:08) like the Fox News and everything they've
(215:11) been building up for like the past like
(215:13) 30 years or so. Um, like I guess like my
(215:16) question is like how was like the left
(215:18) able to build like a similar apparatus
(215:21) despite having despite not really having
(215:23) like a Fox News equivalent?
(215:25) >> Are you talking about like liberals?
(215:26) You're talking about like the far left?
(215:27) >> Yeah, the far left. The far left. Yeah,
(215:28) >> they have a Fox News equivalent. It's
(215:29) all all of their media is like that.
(215:31) Crystal Ball and Kyle Kolinsky are
(215:32) unquestionably and undyingly going to
(215:34) defend to the death every single far
(215:35) left person and they'll never criticize
(215:37) them. Look at all the friendly
(215:38) interviews Hassan got on every far left
(215:40) platform, you know, that he went on.
(215:41) Look at all the friendly interviews that
(215:42) Elsa had and the treatment of like
(215:44) Graham Platner and being told to ignore
(215:45) the Nazi tattoo of 16 years and all of
(215:47) these things like these guys they they
(215:49) duplicated the Fox News thing but they
(215:50) don't have the they don't have the same
(215:52) population like how are they how are
(215:54) they able to duplicate it because like
(215:55) people like like you know like a lot of
(215:57) these like places like like I would say
(215:59) like Kolinsky the majority port and
(216:01) everything started off like originally
(216:02) as like quite like liberal sort of
(216:04) things but then they got like crazy
(216:07) >> no no no that's definitely not true. I
(216:09) think Kolinsky, first of all, I'm pretty
(216:10) sure Kolinsky has endorsed Jill Stein
(216:11) like the last three elections. Number
(216:12) one. Number two, isn't Kolinsky, didn't
(216:15) he start off as a like a pretty hardcore
(216:16) libertarian?
(216:17) >> Yeah, I think he was the he started out
(216:19) on Wall Street.
(216:20) >> Yeah, he was like he was a super like
(216:21) libertarian bro and then like a Bernie
(216:22) bro, like a big Bernie bro. Um, so I
(216:24) don't know if these guys ever start off
(216:25) as like moderate um per se. Uh, if
(216:28) anything, I think like people like Tim P
(216:29) would be a better example because Tim P,
(216:31) if you go read his old Reddit post, it
(216:32) was like a pretty centered like or not
(216:34) even center, he was like an on the
(216:35) ground reporter that was following stuff
(216:36) happening in privately. He still is.
(216:40) >> You know, it just doesn't sell anymore.
(216:41) >> True.
(216:43) >> Yeah. I guess like I guess like it's
(216:44) just like there's there was never like a
(216:46) Fox News thing in like like 30 years ago
(216:48) for like the lefties. So, I just don't
(216:50) know how like they were able to like c
(216:52) this like internet stuff so quickly. But
(216:54) like the
(216:54) >> How do you do it? It's Well, it's super
(216:55) easy. You can do it. We like Liberals
(216:58) could do it tomorrow. You just have to
(216:59) get together with a few people and
(217:00) you've got to decide we're only going to
(217:01) give favorable coverage to our
(217:02) candidates. We're never we're never ever
(217:04) ever going to be critical of them ever.
(217:05) It's always going to be pivot attack uh
(217:07) deny everything. It's always going to be
(217:08) like same messaging. How many times and
(217:11) you can tell they do the same thing that
(217:12) the um Republicans do. How many times
(217:14) did people when they were fighting
(217:15) against the Hassan stuff, you saw this
(217:17) weird thing come out of like why aren't
(217:18) you talking more about Laura Lmer?
(217:20) >> Yeah. What the [ __ ] I don't even know
(217:21) what the [ __ ] that like who likes Laura
(217:24) Loomer. Like that was an incredibly
(217:26) coordinated thing that they went on over
(217:27) and over again. So I mean like they do
(217:28) it. It's easy to do it. It's just a
(217:29) matter of like can you find any success
(217:30) with it? The Republicans have found
(217:31) massive success with it because they've
(217:32) got a whole political party. Half the
(217:33) country's behind it. And then the
(217:34) lefties have like they've got a decent
(217:36) online movement and now they've
(217:37) connected themselves to the DSA and
(217:39) Mandani was a lucky find which helps
(217:40) them too. But um yeah, it's not hard to
(217:42) do it. It's just um whether or not you
(217:44) have the people that that want to do it.
(217:45) And like the the people that work at the
(217:47) New York Times and CNN and the
(217:48) Washington Post, like if I were to say
(217:49) like, "Hey, this is what's going on and
(217:50) this is what you need to do." They say,
(217:51) "No, that's not my job. I don't want to
(217:52) do that. That sounds insane." like and
(217:54) and I don't even necessarily fault them
(217:55) for it because it is insane. It's not
(217:57) journalism. It's something different.
(217:57) It's
(217:58) >> propaganda.
(217:59) >> Yeah. A little quick just a tiny bit of
(218:02) >> Oh, okay. Like Okay. Can I have like I
(218:04) just want to stop Hassan. Hassan has got
(218:06) like a bit of a bug eye. I've like
(218:07) noticed it for like a long time. He has
(218:09) got a lazy eye and I cannot unsee it.
(218:11) He's got a lazy eye. Like that's like
(218:12) another thing like he's like I cannot
(218:14) like every time I look at it he looks
(218:16) actually so [ __ ] like he he looks so
(218:18) special Ed like so like I don't think
(218:20) and it's only getting
(218:21) >> you ableist [ __ ] Wow. I feel like
(218:24) when I listen to him,
(218:28) >> it's like listening to incels be like I
(218:30) mean Megan Fox literally isn't even that
(218:32) attractive and I'm just like I don't
(218:34) know what we're doing.
(218:35) >> Nobody said nobody is not a top 0.001%
(218:40) attractive person. He's just not. If you
(218:41) think that it's not true. He is far
(218:43) above average attractive for sure.
(218:45) >> Why are we debating where he ranks?
(218:48) >> Because Kyla has been the real
(218:50) conversations. You guys are real
(218:51) >> because because Kyla has also been
(218:52) mindfucked by the leftist media into
(218:54) thinking Sonic is a really cool dude
(218:55) because of all these [ __ ] these article
(218:57) things but he's not. He's super not.
(218:58) There are no cool moments with
(219:00) >> if you remember but matter in my life
(219:01) too. So I just want to be really clear.
(219:03) >> It doesn't matter. It's not true. That's
(219:04) why I can't think of a single cool
(219:06) moment of him in media ever.
(219:08) It does matter. It does matter because
(219:10) after this, hold on. It does matter
(219:12) because after this, if I open up DG and
(219:14) I see people thinking that in any way
(219:16) I'm defending Hassan when Hassan and
(219:18) just like
(219:18) >> Nobody's saying you're defending, I'm
(219:20) just saying that's he's not a cool
(219:21) person.
(219:22) >> I'm making sure that I clarify making a
(219:24) Reddit post right now.
(219:25) >> We're doing we're doing the thing that
(219:27) like I feel like like Nazis like said
(219:28) about like the Jews and propaganda time.
(219:30) We're like simultaneously being like our
(219:32) enemies are stupid and mid and garbage
(219:34) and nothing they do is good and they're
(219:35) literally the worst at everything and
(219:36) also they're so powerful and they're
(219:38) able to destroy everything that we
(219:39) >> Nobody is saying that. You're attacking
(219:41) a straw man. This is like getting in
(219:42) this like getting in a Tesla and saying
(219:44) like wow these seats are so
(219:45) uncomfortable and you're like oh so you
(219:46) must think it's slow too, right? No,
(219:47) nobody's saying that. I'm just saying
(219:48) that his political power is not based on
(219:50) his popularity.
(219:52) >> Hassan's interview with Tyami is good
(219:54) proof that he is completely capable of
(219:55) being charismatic and good at
(219:57) networking. I don't know what to tell
(219:58) you. He just like did.
(219:59) >> Is that Wait, is that interview even out
(220:01) yet?
(220:01) >> The Tora Yummy where they're in the car
(220:03) and she gives him a gift. Yeah, that's
(220:04) out.
(220:05) >> The great example.
(220:07) >> Okay, I'll watch You know what? I'll
(220:08) watch Yeah, I'll watch I'll watch that
(220:09) interview and I'll see if it looks like
(220:11) it. Okay. Well, I'll make the
(220:12) determination.
(220:12) >> Okay. Okay.
(220:13) >> As the arbiter of who's the king of
(220:16) cool.
(220:16) >> It does not matter how Hassan looks. He
(220:19) is attractive,
(220:22) I guess, from that.
(220:23) >> Oh, they're going to clip this. It's
(220:24) over.
(220:24) >> Problem is,
(220:25) >> this is what the liberals are talking
(220:27) about.
(220:28) He's just fundamentally stupid. He's
(220:30) fundamentally ignorant.
(220:32) >> Yeah. No, sure. We're not.
(220:33) >> And he's a [ __ ]
(220:35) >> We all hate him. We all hate him. It's
(220:36) just about is he charismatic or not? I
(220:38) don't know. But if he's a master if he's
(220:40) a master networker who was good with
(220:42) Terrai, he was good at the streamer
(220:44) awards. Okay. I don't know what to tell
(220:45) you. It seems like he has good at the
(220:48) streamer awards. The streamer awards.
(220:50) Somebody brought up his dog collar thing
(220:52) and he like immediately was able to flip
(220:53) it and like make like a flirtatious joke
(220:55) with Emily, I think. Or maybe it wasn't
(220:57) Emily. Something like that.
(220:58) >> Was it flirtatious or was it awkward? Is
(221:00) that the one where he said I could put a
(221:01) collar on you? Like
(221:03) >> and she's like, yeah. Yeah, that one.
(221:06) Girl is [ __ ] twiddling her coochie
(221:08) hairs. What are we talking about? What?
(221:10) >> Okay.
(221:11) >> Oh my god.
(221:13) >> Okay. What? Whatever. Whatever.
(221:14) Whatever.
(221:15) >> We're having this conversation when
(221:16) there's literally a genocide happening
(221:18) right now. This is true. and fascism
(221:20) donate to Ukraine today most of all.
(221:22) Okay. Uh caller, what do you got?
(221:25) >> Hey guys, uh thanks for having me on.
(221:27) I've uh discovered everybody's channels
(221:29) pretty recently.
(221:30) >> Oh, hi.
(221:30) >> And as someone who's had their head in
(221:33) the sand for 20 years,
(221:35) >> um I'm just really curious, what does
(221:37) everybody think the uh first principles
(221:40) or core values of liberalism are? And
(221:43) how would you guys go about better
(221:45) communicating them? I for me the core
(221:48) values of liberalism are pluralism,
(221:51) equality under the law, right? Uh free
(221:54) and fair elections, the consent of the
(221:57) governed as they say. Uh those are there
(222:00) there's more, right? But those are the
(222:01) ones that I think that are are the the
(222:03) core ones, right? Uh to put it more
(222:05) simple, uh free speech, free trade, free
(222:08) elections, right? If you want to make it
(222:09) piffy.
(222:10) >> Um
(222:11) >> how do we communicate that?
(222:13) >> Because we want to communicate. Uh
(222:15) again, it's just by going out there
(222:18) being unapologetic about it says yes, I
(222:20) think that everyone deserves a fair
(222:22) trial, even bad people. And no, Pete
(222:26) Hegth, we shouldn't execute people live
(222:29) on television for clicks and views.
(222:31) That's abhorrent and disgusting and
(222:33) beneath us. And I think that these
(222:35) things are things that we need to just
(222:37) draw distinctions, right, between
(222:39) liberal actors and what they accomplish
(222:42) and illiberal actors and what they do to
(222:46) harm your pocketbook, ladies and
(222:49) gentlemen. But anyway, that's uh that's
(222:51) my answer, but I want to I'm curious
(222:53) what everyone else would have to say.
(222:56) >> Feel mine's relatively similar. Oh, cut
(222:58) you off, bro. Get [ __ ] on.
(223:00) >> I just had ditto, so I Yeah, I already I
(223:02) got the ditto. [ __ ] you.
(223:03) >> My bad.
(223:04) It just boils down to something
(223:06) incredibly similar, right?
(223:07) Anti-majoritarian institutions,
(223:09) democracy, negative rights, rule of law.
(223:12) It it I think we don't really have to
(223:14) think about it too much. A lot of these
(223:16) ideas, these principles of equality,
(223:18) freedom, standing against abuse, I think
(223:21) already resonates with the average
(223:22) American. You just have to package it in
(223:24) a way that's very nice and cool and
(223:26) appealing. I think John Oaf does a great
(223:28) job at doing that. You should go watch
(223:30) his debate with Mike Collins if you want
(223:31) some [ __ ] points. That was beautiful.
(223:33) No notes.
(223:34) >> You know what edit we should actually
(223:35) make for liberalism. I don't know if you
(223:37) guys have seen people will take like um
(223:39) my lunness like [ __ ] on feminists
(223:42) and being like they're so ugly or
(223:43) whatever. They're like all ugly women
(223:45) and then some girl will be like I'm a
(223:47) feminist and then she'll just like have
(223:48) a bunch of like montages of her like
(223:50) flexing and mogging and just being super
(223:52) attractive and being cool and being
(223:53) ripped and stuff like that. I feel like
(223:55) we need to do that with liberal. I feel
(223:56) like that would be such a All right, DG.
(223:58) Okay, you guys are powerful clippers.
(224:00) This is what we need. We just need
(224:01) something matter. I'm liberal and then
(224:03) just clip it up with a bunch of [ __ ]
(224:05) based ass [ __ ] Okay. All together
(224:08) flexing and being
(224:09) >> liberal edit.
(224:11) >> No, actually do like [ __ ] inspo pose.
(224:13) That'd be sick.
(224:14) >> Yeah, I know. It works. It works.
(224:15) >> Look, I'm not just so clear. Inspo will
(224:17) save liberalism. for
(224:20) >> talking about the end of history
(224:22) >> and then just superimposed
(224:25) over all the victories that liberalism's
(224:30) been having over authoritarian regimes
(224:32) such as Russia, China, all these things,
(224:34) the USSR back in the day and just the
(224:36) they had the Seven Nation Army song in
(224:38) the background. It's a
(224:39) >> it's a fire edit. If you haven't seen
(224:41) that, it's my favorite liberal aura
(224:44) edit. But no, we need to to to Kyla's
(224:46) point, we do need just more propaganda
(224:49) for I'm not saying that in the negative
(224:52) sense, but like just more positive
(224:54) liberal propaganda.
(224:55) >> Yeah. And get hobbies. Oh my god.
(224:56) Liberals get hobbies and be cool in your
(224:58) hobbies and then brag loudly that you're
(225:01) a liberal. It's so power. I've converted
(225:03) like
(225:03) >> you know who doesn't have any hobbies
(225:04) but Kyla thinks it's really cool. Just
(225:07) >> Oh my god.
(225:11) >> Can't stop talking about somebody who
(225:12) doesn't. Doesn't he go to music
(225:14) festivals and things like that?
(225:16) >> No. Oh my god, you're you're so
(225:19) American. I thought you were Canadian.
(225:20) >> What about you?
(225:21) >> Remember he went to the in the plane and
(225:22) he flew to that. He literally on stream
(225:24) saying, "I don't like music." But no,
(225:26) definitely. He loves festivals. True.
(225:28) >> He goes to Coell every year and like
(225:30) flexes his fashion.
(225:33) >> Imagine you're so brainw about this. I'm
(225:36) like, I'm not even
(225:36) >> a guy who hangs out with celebrities and
(225:39) and models all the time and is sleeping
(225:41) with porn stars and has somebody dress
(225:43) him well and all these sort of things.
(225:44) Yeah. Not in the IT crowd.
(225:46) >> It's so funny how we get back to Hassan
(225:48) at the tail end of every illustrates a
(225:51) fundamental. It illustrates it
(225:53) illustrates a lot a lot of stuff is
(225:54) being illustrated right now.
(225:56) >> Derangement syndrome, bro.
(225:58) >> Bro, it's our enemies are stupid and
(226:00) useless and there's nothing we can learn
(226:02) from them.
(226:03) Uh yeah, one more quick thing. Um I
(226:05) think Destiny, I've heard you say in the
(226:07) past uh that a lot of these core values
(226:09) have just been taken for granted because
(226:10) it's kind of like the air we breathe
(226:12) here in America.
(226:13) >> I'm just wondering what's your solution
(226:15) for that?
(226:17) >> Um yeah, like I mean what people said
(226:18) here, I think you just have to be
(226:19) willing to positively defend them more.
(226:22) >> Um when things fade into the background,
(226:24) a couple things happen. One, people take
(226:25) them for granted. Don't let them do
(226:26) that. Um when people say things like,
(226:28) "Oh, it doesn't matter if um we have due
(226:31) process for people." I guess Republicans
(226:32) don't believe in any reason why you
(226:34) should be able to defend that. Um,
(226:36) something I've talked about is liberals
(226:39) are really bad and progressives are
(226:40) really bad at the things that we protect
(226:42) in this country as like uh
(226:44) opportunities. They they make them sound
(226:45) kind of like burdens or problems. So
(226:47) like the concept of like diversity is
(226:49) our greatest strength was like a thing
(226:50) that was weaponized for so long against
(226:51) us. But genuinely we do have a lot of
(226:53) really cool people here and you know
(226:54) intuitively even Republicans acknowledge
(226:56) that because they really like people
(226:57) like Cash Patel or VC Ramaswami or Elon
(227:00) Musk or you know these people from
(227:02) around the world that come to the United
(227:03) States to do [ __ ] and they choose to
(227:04) come here and do it. So um yeah I don't
(227:07) know there's a lot of different ways you
(227:08) can go about it and [ __ ] on leftists
(227:11) >> and having hobbies and being the coolest
(227:13) person in your hobby. Okay, I've
(227:14) converted
(227:16) >> do that. Don't be like Asan. You should
(227:17) actually have a hobby. You should
(227:19) actually do things and don't just try to
(227:20) be a clad demon because he's going to be
(227:21) born into a billion family.
(227:22) >> I don't give a [ __ ] I don't like him
(227:23) either, but I don't
(227:24) >> The whole world thinks he's cool as you
(227:27) bring up poll after poll after poll of
(227:28) everybody hating him. Nobody That's not
(227:30) true. That's a manufactured opinion.
(227:32) >> Oh, no. The boomers don't like him.
(227:34) >> Boomers. You have nothing to to support
(227:37) your opinion on anything.
(227:38) >> Yeah, Jen Zed thinks he's cool. Kill
(227:40) yourself. I don't know what to tell you
(227:41) in a video game.
(227:42) >> Jen Zed is supposed to zed [ __ ]
(227:44) Republican right now. What do you mean
(227:45) Jen Zed thinks he's cool? Wait, Jen said
(227:47) boys are Republican, but the girls are
(227:49) left, so the girls like him. I don't
(227:51) know what to tell you. Again,
(227:52) >> given the opportunity,
(227:54) [ __ ] It's not about ruining
(227:56) life. You're making it personal because
(227:58) you want to make it personal. You have
(227:59) nothing. If you were to put into a room
(228:02) in the criticisms that will be
(228:03) introduced.
(228:05) >> No, no, it's relevant because I
(228:06) reacting.
(228:07) >> If you were to take if you were to take
(228:09) >> God if you were to take Nick Fuentes and
(228:11) if you were to take Hassan [ __ ] and
(228:12) throw them in a room with other people,
(228:14) 99% of people would tell you that
(228:16) Fuentes is funnier, more personable, and
(228:18) and has more charisma. It wouldn't even
(228:19) be close. It wouldn't even be close.
(228:21) >> I believe I think Nick Fentes is like
(228:23) Fuentes once threatened to lock me in
(228:25) his basement and torture me. I don't I
(228:27) think I think Nick Fentes
(228:29) >> and he's complimenting him by the way.
(228:30) He's complimenting but I'm just saying
(228:31) the difference is that somebody like
(228:32) Fuentes he built up looks really weird
(228:35) and so people would broadly while I
(228:37) agree that people would like Nick Fentes
(228:38) more more women would want to sleep with
(228:41) Hassan and that helps in social value. I
(228:44) don't know what to tell you like I don't
(228:45) know why we're coping so hard we're
(228:47) actually doing the characteristics. I
(228:50) mean like Hassan was so traumatized with
(228:53) that Mia Malcoa date that he was crying
(228:55) by the end and almost burned his
(228:56) friendship with every Twitch stre to the
(228:58) ground. He was so traumatized with how
(228:59) that went. He couldn't hold on to his
(229:01) one porn star girlfriend you talk about
(229:02) all the time because she was going to go
(229:03) to a diddy party and he felt threatened
(229:04) and dumped her and then he called the
(229:05) [ __ ] police on her for a welfare
(229:07) check later. Like I mean I don't know.
(229:08) I'm just saying it's I I'm glad you
(229:10) believe the hype though. That's good.
(229:11) Those publications his his publicity guy
(229:14) getting value in that I guess
(229:15) >> Megan Fox. She's mid. I don't know.
(229:17) Hassan is Megan Fox. True. Yes.
(229:19) politics. Apt comparison. True.
(229:21) >> He's probably the most attractive person
(229:22) in politics.
(229:23) >> Apt comparison. Yes. Apt comparison.
(229:25) >> Wick. Other than Wick, obviously. Yeah,
(229:27) there is.
(229:27) >> I'm sorry.
(229:28) >> Uh I'm trying to get him to go to the
(229:30) right room. Dan is screaming at me.
(229:33) >> Screaming at me to get
(229:35) >> and uh he just needs
(229:37) >> Dan.
(229:38) >> Yeah, Dan. Dan the content man.
(229:42) >> You mean the pro-Israel Zionist?
(229:46) That guy? The paid for the paid by
(229:48) Israel Zionist.
(229:49) >> He's a POS. He's a POS.
(229:52) >> Okay. You you you asked and the wit
(229:54) class is answered. What do you got?
(229:57) >> You have lost your marbles.
(229:59) >> Oh no, bro.
(230:02) >> I want to know what part of Hassan is
(230:04) doing better right now than he was a
(230:06) year ago because his views on Twitch are
(230:08) down. His subs on Twitch are down. In
(230:10) fact, they're so low. They haven't been
(230:12) this low since 2021. So, his viewerships
(230:14) is down. His revenue is down and you
(230:17) could say that he's more popular, but I
(230:19) would say he's more infamous just like
(230:20) Harvey Weinstein is at the peak of his
(230:22) infamy right now. So is his time.
(230:24) >> I I don't know what. So I that's great.
(230:26) I'm glad to hear that he's struggling
(230:28) more. He's also in more mainstream
(230:29) platforms. He has been helping more
(230:30) often.
(230:31) >> So is Harvey Weinstein.
(230:33) >> Well, I don't think he's Harvey
(230:35) Weinstein yet. I mean, if it find if he
(230:36) turns out that he's done a whole bunch
(230:38) of crimes, I think he will fall from
(230:39) frame and I think that would be awesome.
(230:40) But yeah, I don't I think that right now
(230:42) he is absolutely in the it parties right
(230:44) now. He is like on his way up. No,
(230:46) >> 93 out of 100 articles over Hassan in
(230:49) the last four months have been negative.
(230:51) >> So do you think this is like good?
(230:53) >> How do you have these stats? Holy [ __ ]
(230:55) He's the number one Hassan hater. No one
(230:58) can match my
(230:59) >> I would totally believe you. I would
(231:00) just I'll just grant this to you. Do you
(231:02) think on Instagram most clips about him
(231:04) are positive or negative?
(231:07) uh from the left
(231:08) >> on Instagram specifically from the left.
(231:11) How how am I supposed to answer that if
(231:12) you have
(231:12) >> Oh, definitely positive. I'm sure on
(231:14) Instagram.
(231:15) >> If you're going to go like off of one
(231:17) segment, then Tik Tok. Yeah, let's do
(231:19) Instagram and Tik Tok.
(231:21) >> Uh well, he's complaining a little bit
(231:22) about Tik Tok lately with the uh the
(231:24) whole owned by the Zionist thing, you
(231:26) know?
(231:26) >> Well,
(231:27) >> he's definitely more he's definitely
(231:28) gets favorable views on those platforms,
(231:30) though,
(231:30) >> obviously. And
(231:31) >> because like socialism is like the
(231:32) thing.
(231:33) >> What are some of the most social? It's
(231:36) [ __ ] brutal. I mean, if you're if
(231:38) you're trying to push this idea that he
(231:40) isn't having some success in some areas,
(231:42) I won't argue with that. But I'm saying
(231:44) that his core of where he is, because
(231:47) what is he? When everyone defines him,
(231:48) what is he?
(231:49) >> He's a Twitch streamer, right? That's
(231:50) what everyone says. Twitch streamer.
(231:51) Twitch streamer. And that metric,
(231:53) >> what's the core of my position?
(231:54) >> Down on Hassan. What? Why? Why is he Why
(231:57) have he Why is he
(231:58) >> I think I think that he's I think that
(232:00) he's mentally
(232:02) >> You've fallen for it because he does
(232:03) this whole thing. He's trying to
(232:05) >> No, here. Hold on. No, no, no. I'm
(232:08) saying what I'm saying is that he pushes
(232:10) out content so much saying, "Guys, it's
(232:11) not working. We're We're doing so good.
(232:13) We're up. We're up. We're up."
(232:14) >> But he's not up. And you can't fall for
(232:16) it
(232:17) >> on that front. Every stat that you show
(232:19) that matters with him.
(232:20) >> I'm going to say this again. I'm going
(232:21) to ask you again.
(232:22) >> She's asking you,
(232:23) >> "What is my position on? Why did I bring
(232:25) him up at all?"
(232:27) >> You say that he's cool.
(232:28) >> Yep.
(232:31) >> But cool to who?
(232:33) young people how young people that are
(232:36) into music. I I don't know in the same
(232:38) way
(232:39) >> young people are watching him
(232:40) >> in like the same way that people are
(232:41) like think that he's people are sexy. I
(232:43) like I don't know. I just feel like you
(232:45) should go outside. I feel like if you
(232:46) talk to young people they think that
(232:48) he's
(232:48) >> go outside the first opinion most you
(232:51) know what's cool like dogtober
(232:53) compilations of Hassan. That's why
(232:54) people have no idea of this guy are
(232:56) laughing and doing memes of him getting
(232:58) shocked. Like that's the first
(232:59) impression people have. He's not cool.
(233:02) If he was cool, why is he not growing
(233:04) with cool people that want to watch him?
(233:06) Why is he going down?
(233:08) >> Okay, if he's so cool people being
(233:09) >> Holocaust bad at debating and if he's a
(233:12) bad networker and he's stupid and he's
(233:14) got bad positions, why I don't
(233:16) understand this is Hassan Ranchman
(233:17) syndrome. Where does the random stuff I
(233:19) don't know where do you guys pull from
(233:21) your brain like the random things that
(233:23) nobody's saying? Like everybody in here
(233:25) has already said Hassan is really good
(233:26) at networking and you just added like
(233:27) now you're saying he's a bad network.
(233:28) Nobody said that. I don't understand
(233:29) where that came from.
(233:30) >> Well, no, no, no. I'm I'm juxtaposing
(233:32) it. You guys agreed that he's a good
(233:34) networker and then insists that for
(233:35) example he's not socially skilled or
(233:37) cool or anything. So then the question
(233:39) is why is he a good networker? He's just
(233:40) a malicious person
(233:41) >> because he exercises his the power that
(233:43) he has on his platform in a in you're
(233:45) saying author authoritarian way
(233:47) >> before he had the platform though right
(233:49) >> answer this for you.
(233:50) >> No he didn't. The only reason he existed
(233:52) on there before he had the platform was
(233:53) because I put him up. But it wasn't
(233:55) because he was
(233:56) >> and then he kicked you out of the friend
(233:57) group despite you having more clout
(234:00) >> today. No, he wasn't. No, no, no. To be
(234:02) clear. No, wait. Shut up. Wait, cuz you
(234:04) don't know. Hold on. He wasn't able to
(234:05) kick anybody out until he had the
(234:07) viewership. He needed the viewership
(234:09) first.
(234:09) >> Before Destiny, he had a connection to
(234:12) powerful people on the Young Turks. His
(234:15) >> That's true. But I'm saying, hold on,
(234:16) but forget that's not relevant. I'm
(234:17) saying to the he wasn't able to
(234:19) exercise.
(234:19) >> Make my argument. Let me make my
(234:20) argument Destiny. Okay. Right. The
(234:23) argument I am making is he utilizes the
(234:25) resource that he has which is his
(234:29) popularity. Not his coolness but his
(234:32) popularity. The fact that eyeballs on
(234:35) him in order to leverage that in order
(234:38) to get more uh networking done.
(234:41) >> Okay. Find me a networker who is
(234:43) uncarismatic. Find it for me. Describe
(234:45) them for me.
(234:46) >> Networker. It's not his charisma. It's
(234:48) not his [ __ ] coolness. It is that.
(234:52) >> Okay. F again. Point me to a networker
(234:54) who is uncarismatic. Just describe them
(234:57) to me. The uncarismatic. Super
(235:00) networker. Charismatic. Super. Not just
(235:02) a good networker. A super networker.
(235:05) Lobbyi into destiny space and then use
(235:07) that relationship to get into each
(235:08) other's relationship. Super networker
(235:10) who's uncarismatic. Just describe him to
(235:12) me. Go ahead.
(235:12) >> You are prescribing to me.
(235:14) >> How about hold wait. How about Elon
(235:19) [ __ ] Musk who is the most wealthiest
(235:21) [ __ ] and connected guy on the planet.
(235:23) He is the biggest [ __ ] loser on the
(235:25) planet.
(235:25) >> I agree. No, very few people think he's
(235:27) >> great at networking.
(235:28) >> He's so uncool Epstein didn't want him
(235:30) at his [ __ ] island unironically. Like
(235:33) >> Musk is not great at networking.
(235:35) >> Yeah, but he's he's Super Bowl network.
(235:37) He's in every room.
(235:39) >> Oh, so Elon Musk is a super networker.
(235:42) >> Yes.
(235:43) >> Are we really fighting on that point?
(235:45) >> Okay,
(235:46) >> hold on. Do you disagree?
(235:47) >> Yeah. I think that he's what we call
(235:49) [ __ ] right? They like pay they
(235:51) pay for influence. That doesn't make you
(235:52) a good networker.
(235:54) >> That's what Assan does. That's how he
(235:56) What do you think? Hold on. What do you
(235:58) What platforms did Hassan gain access to
(236:00) without like his prior existing star
(236:03) power that he was leveraging
(236:04) >> you?
(236:06) >> Yes, but that's because I'm an outreed
(236:08) or I'm a I'm a rare example of somebody
(236:10) who would choose somebody based on
(236:11) things that I think are interesting.
(236:12) That's why Mr. girl and Lab and all the
(236:14) crazy people on my stream and my
(236:15) platform or whatever. But then besides
(236:17) me who gives opportunities to people
(236:20) because I think they're interesting,
(236:23) what other platform has he gained access
(236:24) to because of his charisma. It was
(236:26) always because of because of numbers.
(236:27) That's the power that he exercises.
(236:29) >> Um there are significantly more famous
(236:31) people that don't seem to get access to
(236:32) the same spaces that he does. In the
(236:34) case of Elon Musk, I don't even think
(236:36) he's cool at all or superer. He got
(236:38) kicked out of he got kicked out of the
(236:39) EDM scene. Nobody likes him there. The
(236:42) child [ __ ] don't like him. Somehow
(236:43) feels like a really low bar. He uh the
(236:46) Aya community as well. He was a big part
(236:47) of. He also got kicked out of that.
(236:49) Trump doesn't even really like spending
(236:50) time with him. They just like his money.
(236:52) I would say Elon Musk is the exact
(236:54) opposite of a good networker. He's
(236:56) really rich and despite that, people
(236:58) still don't want him around.
(236:59) >> Just sure. And maybe that's because the
(237:01) way that heorked was because he didn't
(237:02) have charisma. He had money and he had
(237:05) power in other ways. Just like how
(237:06) Hassan is no longer welcome back. Just
(237:08) like just like how Hassan isn't invited
(237:11) now to do anything with Mani and he
(237:12) doesn't talk about him. Just like how
(237:13) Elsa had to make a call Hassan and tell
(237:15) him to [ __ ] off. You don't do this to
(237:16) charismatic people. You do this people
(237:18) who use some kind of power to gain some
(237:19) a little bit of influence. And then when
(237:21) it was no longer popular, there's a
(237:22) reason why none of his old Twitch
(237:23) friends wanted to do shows with he was
(237:24) crying about this a year or two ago that
(237:26) nobody on Twitch wanted to do anything.
(237:27) And he doesn't do any events with these
(237:28) people. Where's the charisma? It's
(237:30) because the only thing he had before was
(237:31) power. Once the advertising revenue got
(237:33) removed, he lost the only bit of
(237:34) leverage that he had on any of these
(237:35) people. And now he has nothing. He has
(237:36) no charisma to gain any of these people
(237:37) back. Okay. So when I hear networking,
(237:40) I'm thinking you talk to people, you
(237:43) make them like you so that you get
(237:45) access to things that you would
(237:46) otherwise not get access to.
(237:47) >> Hassan does not do this. That is
(237:48) correct. You defined charisma correctly,
(237:49) but not this is not what does. I
(237:51) >> I understand that you don't want to say
(237:52) Hassan does that. Elon Musk is a good
(237:53) example of somebody who doesn't use the
(237:55) gift of gab to get into rooms. He pays
(237:58) for it. And despite how much he pays for
(238:00) it, people still don't want to be around
(238:02) here. I would not say that Elon Musk is
(238:03) a good networker. I would say he's the
(238:04) opposite of one. despite his enormous
(238:06) wealth and power, people still don't
(238:08) want to be around this [ __ ]
(238:10) Right? Elon Musk is like the dirty even
(238:12) ed EDM team hates him, right? They hated
(238:14) him.
(238:14) >> But this is true with this is true with
(238:16) Hassan as well. Like how many times are
(238:18) people like having an amazing
(238:20) >> he was a friend of the royalty long
(238:22) before he was bigger than them. He was
(238:24) on their shows and hanging out with them
(238:25) in large part because of your influence.
(238:27) Hassan,
(238:28) >> I I no I just I don't I'm not sure
(238:30) you're aware of the timelines and
(238:31) everything
(238:32) >> after he was more famous than them. No.
(238:35) Yes.
(238:35) >> No,
(238:36) >> it was after he because after we had our
(238:38) big split, he grinded the [ __ ] out of
(238:40) 90day fiance to get the five figure
(238:41) viewership and then after that then he
(238:43) went back to the Twitch communities and
(238:44) then was like, "Let's do events, let's
(238:46) do this or whatever."
(238:46) >> Was it the 90day thing that made him
(238:48) famous?
(238:50) >> That's how he got viewership.
(238:51) >> Yeah.
(238:51) >> Okay. But the split happened and they
(238:53) picked him before the 90-day grind.
(238:56) >> No, absolutely not. I The closer friends
(238:59) were on my side for
(239:02) >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look at the early
(239:03) Twitch shows and everything. Yeah, of
(239:04) course. What do you mean? Yes.
(239:05) >> Okay. I I'm sorry. I I think it's so
(239:08) wild. I agree that Hassan is like a
(239:10) little bit socially autistic and like
(239:12) struggles in some sort of ways. He is
(239:13) obviously a capable networker by the
(239:16) fact that heworked into with you.
(239:18) Heworked in with all of these TV scenes.
(239:21) >> This is the brain program. Okay. You're
(239:22) just repeating things we've already
(239:24) debunked and you're saying random
(239:25) things. He didn't network in with me.
(239:27) >> Hassan did not network in with me
(239:29) because of some charismatic thing. He
(239:30) debated Charlie Kirk and I love talking
(239:32) to anybody about debate and I'll bring
(239:33) it basically anybody on my stream who
(239:34) wants to talk about debate. That's it.
(239:36) He didn't network with me. When you talk
(239:37) about the other people that you keep
(239:38) bringing up, it was a numbers game.
(239:39) That's it. And once he doesn't have the
(239:40) numbers or the power of the thumb to
(239:41) push down on him, it's why he's single
(239:43) right now. He doesn't have any [ __ ]
(239:44) girlfriend. The one that he had before
(239:45) wouldn't appear on [ __ ] stream with
(239:46) him for for who knows what reasons. He
(239:47) has no children, even though it's a big
(239:48) thing in his family and his culture
(239:50) supposedly, right? He doesn't have any
(239:51) friends that he appears with regularly.
(239:52) He cries about not having any streamers
(239:53) backing him up. You talk about him going
(239:55) to these parties like he's going with a
(239:56) date or he's showing up with the same
(239:57) people over and over again. He doesn't
(239:59) have people that he's like regularly
(240:00) broadcast
(240:00) >> with TV with Austin TV and Cinderella
(240:03) and stuff. They do it regularly all the
(240:05) time.
(240:05) >> Yeah. One person who just left, right,
(240:07) the show March and then he's got and
(240:09) then he's got other people. How many
(240:11) people How much money do those people
(240:12) get? These are the real issues.
(240:14) >> $20,000 a month to be on that show with
(240:16) him. How many people do that show for
(240:18) free?
(240:18) >> Let me let me just interject real quick
(240:20) and say that I think that um one thing
(240:22) that's overlooked here because it really
(240:23) doesn't matter all the [ __ ] you're
(240:24) saying on regardless for either of you.
(240:27) The point is that Wick talked about this
(240:29) and I wrote about this a while ago, but
(240:31) the sister soldier moment that we had
(240:33) back in the day, it should just be
(240:36) renamed at this point the Hassan [ __ ]
(240:38) moment because it's actually like
(240:40) definitively what's happening right now.
(240:42) Candidates are coming out and disavowing
(240:45) him and making their mark. Like Hassan
(240:47) Piker's purpose right now is like the uh
(240:50) [ __ ] mechanical thing that passes the
(240:52) that passes the butter. Like his purpose
(240:54) is to be disavowed. He is in a way
(240:56) helping Democrats because every Democrat
(240:58) can disavow and say we're not actually
(241:00) extremists like this guy. He's [ __ ]
(241:01) nuts and that's what's happening. And I
(241:04) don't I I think that this is all kind of
(241:07) good at this point. Um I don't think
(241:09) that it should be let up. I think the
(241:12) delusions that Hassan loves this and
(241:13) this is great. That is definitely not
(241:15) the case. Hassan would love to be having
(241:18) nothing but pieces about him.
(241:20) You've misunderstood what I said. Yeah.
(241:22) I I don't think that I've never said
(241:23) that he loves it. I said that when
(241:25) establishment people specifically are
(241:27) against him, he can leverage it for his
(241:28) brand. That's what I said.
(241:30) >> Doesn't seem like it because he's going
(241:31) down in viewerships and revenue
(241:33) >> now that you guys have been consistently
(241:35) attacking him dedicatedly for quite some
(241:37) time. But the reality is that he got
(241:39) into all of these spaces. He got on to
(241:40) New York Times. He got on to like
(241:42) Rolling Stones multiple times that did
(241:44) soft plus pieces for him. And it's only
(241:46) now
(241:47) >> doesn't seem to have moved the needle. I
(241:49) mean, that's what that's expected. Those
(241:50) are extremist [ __ ] That's like as far
(241:52) left as you listen to me. Listen to me.
(241:53) Listen to me.
(241:54) >> She's right that he got into all of
(241:56) these spaces and it started retracting
(241:58) on him now because you guys are
(242:01) absolutely highlighting how crazy he is
(242:04) and whatnot. But it's as a result of
(242:05) that. But he absolutely used his power,
(242:08) his network, his connections to pull
(242:10) these people towards him and have them
(242:12) identify. And now that his reputation is
(242:14) getting damaged, people are starting to
(242:15) leave. But none of that is actually
(242:17) evidence that he a was never cool. He
(242:20) was all the you know who Hassan is
(242:22) Hassan is. Hassan is Bloomberg in the
(242:24) 2020 primaries. That's it. Where he was
(242:26) pulling so unbelievably high uh in all
(242:29) of these upcoming primaries, but it's
(242:31) because the election hadn't gotten to
(242:32) those places yet. And the second voters
(242:34) had to actually look and see who he was
(242:36) and he wasn't just his ads running
(242:37) anymore. Everybody hated him and then he
(242:38) got basically crushed. I think that's
(242:40) all that's all we saw. Like you have
(242:41) this impression that Assan was so cool
(242:43) with all these puppies. The number one
(242:45) mark of a person.
(242:45) >> Why do I say this? What? What do I even
(242:47) What What are you talking
(242:47) >> that he was gaining broad appeal? That
(242:49) he was gaining broad appeal.
(242:50) >> No, when I say that he was cool, when
(242:53) I'm saying an example of this, I'm
(242:55) saying he has motion. He is in with the
(242:57) arts. People think that
(242:58) >> what is Hold on. If what is motion if
(243:00) not broad appeal?
(243:02) >> Um uh people are drawn to him and find
(243:05) him interesting whether or not they like
(243:07) him or not necessarily. They think that
(243:08) he's like handsome. He's at the
(243:09) forefront of
(243:10) >> sure. Okay, I agree. That was not that's
(243:11) not that was not Hassan ever though.
(243:13) That never happened. The number one way
(243:15) that you can tell as a streamer when
(243:17) somebody doesn't have good appeal is
(243:19) when they have big blowup moments and
(243:20) they're not able to convert it into
(243:21) anything more. Hassan has had more
(243:23) favorable press coverage than any
(243:25) streamer on the history of the planet
(243:27) and it hasn't moved the needle on him at
(243:29) all. He wasn't able to convert any of it
(243:30) into consistent viewership. He's lost
(243:32) all of his political power in the DSA
(243:34) and in the party broadly, if you ever
(243:35) had any in the party broadly like
(243:37) everything, the more people find out
(243:38) about him, the worse it gets over and
(243:40) over and over again. which is awesome.
(243:42) >> One of the reasons that he was able to
(243:44) get these puff pieces is because he's an
(243:46) ideological ally of a group that is
(243:49) >> This is so This is so deranged. I cannot
(243:52) believe I am having to explain to you
(243:53) guys that obviously
(243:56) young people and people who are like in
(243:59) cool culture thought he was cool. Do I
(244:02) think that that's awesome? Hold on.
(244:03) Stop. Stop. Shut the [ __ ] up. Do I think
(244:06) that that's good?
(244:07) >> No. Do I think for example saying you
(244:09) think it's good? Why do you keep saying
(244:10) this? You're not. Nobody's making these
(244:12) arguments. You keep responding
(244:13) arguments. Nobody's making.
(244:14) >> I am. You're right. I am front ending
(244:15) all of the fact that I am absolutely
(244:17) buckling down for the fact that I'm
(244:19) going to get [ __ ] on like ruthlessly
(244:20) after this, which is so frustrating. All
(244:22) I am trying to say is that it is obvious
(244:25) that Hassan was cool. I don't know what
(244:27) to tell you. [ __ ] look at him. He's
(244:29) at the forefront of fashion. He's at
(244:30) Coachella. Celebrities want to [ __ ] him.
(244:32) >> The forefront of fashion. What? Stop.
(244:35) >> Yes. He's going to Coachella. He's going
(244:37) to [ __ ] him. Please. Anybody that's
(244:40) connected to anything for birthday go to
(244:42) Coachella. Coachella is not like the be
(244:43) all and end all.
(244:44) >> Be more careful with my words when I say
(244:45) at the forefront.
(244:46) >> He's not cool. He's an extremist.
(244:48) >> What I am saying.
(244:51) >> Stop painting me. First of all, do not
(244:52) paint me like I like this guy. He ruined
(244:54) my [ __ ] life. Like I I want to say
(244:57) you like him.
(244:58) >> Dan is instigating that direction. I
(244:59) need you to understand. Stop.
(245:00) >> I didn't say I didn't go that direction.
(245:02) I have I had to go through PTSD
(245:04) treatment because of Asan. So stop. All
(245:07) I am saying, it's so [ __ ] simple. It
(245:10) is obvious that people think he's cool.
(245:12) I meet young people who are between the
(245:14) ages of 20 and 25 every day who think
(245:17) that he's cool. Does that mean anything
(245:20) bigger to them? Not really. They think
(245:22) he's cool. Girls want to [ __ ] him. Guys
(245:24) kind of want to be him. That's it.
(245:26) That's all that means. Does that mean
(245:28) that he is gaining political power? No.
(245:30) Does that mean that he's something that
(245:32) is good? No. But we can look at the fact
(245:34) that he championed
(245:36) >> he's it's because of it's because he's a
(245:37) socialist. If he was the exact same
(245:39) person but a liberal, nobody would know
(245:40) who he was.
(245:42) >> Liberal point to one of them audience.
(245:43) Hold on please. Just to be clear to my
(245:45) audience, if you are coming after Kyla
(245:47) for this, you have to go through me
(245:49) first because Kyla is an ally. Kyla is a
(245:52) liberal. Kyla does not like Hassan. So
(245:55) stop being weird. Okay? I just want to
(245:57) make that clear. Don't don't be weird.
(245:59) Just don't be weird. You could disagree
(246:01) with her. I disagree with her, but don't
(246:03) be weird. Okay, that's how I would say
(246:05) the same%.
(246:06) >> I don't think um I'm I'm not I just
(246:08) think that it's um misguid like that
(246:11) we're conflating whatever like cool is,
(246:14) right? Like musicians can be cool,
(246:16) artists can be cool, but people that are
(246:18) in politics that are extremists will get
(246:21) >> uh people that are also extremists that
(246:24) that evangelize them, but that doesn't
(246:26) make them cool. Like in the same way
(246:28) that you would say Nick Fuentes is cool.
(246:29) He has the same level of influence that
(246:32) Hassan does, but he's not cool because
(246:34) of who he is. He's an extremist that
(246:36) attracts an extremist audience.
(246:37) >> Well, he's
(246:38) >> the reason that we have that like kids
(246:40) have
(246:40) >> and funny.
(246:44) >> I don't know enough about Jacob at all.
(246:46) >> Well, I mean,
(246:47) >> I just I don't even know what he looks
(246:49) like. I
(246:50) >> He's on the shirts.
(246:51) >> He's the guy on the shirt. He's the guy
(246:52) with the
(246:54) >> Yes, the guy. the guy from like Cuba
(246:57) like the you know
(247:00) >> like the revolutionary not the poster
(247:03) >> maybe he's not
(247:04) >> why okay if we don't know this person is
(247:05) clearly this is not the example you
(247:06) understand
(247:07) >> yeah I don't know
(247:08) >> okay the the whole the whole thought
(247:09) here is that like this is a poster on
(247:11) like every [ __ ] like angsty
(247:13) teenager's wall not because the guy is
(247:16) cool but the idea is cool and an
(247:18) extremist is cool and that's it so
(247:20) >> yeah yes yes in part being being
(247:22) counterculture is part of being cool and
(247:24) Hassan als also can take advantage of
(247:25) that. That's why like punk and goth and
(247:27) stuff is often viewed as like cool,
(247:29) right? So when I'm saying
(247:30) >> but it's not cool to normies, right?
(247:33) Would you say like a bunch of people you
(247:34) think anyone in Texas thinks that punk
(247:36) is cool?
(247:37) >> Yes.
(247:38) >> Okay. I don't think so. I think they
(247:41) depends on it depends on where you're
(247:42) at. If you live in Austin or some
(247:44) [ __ ] these people are going to be
(247:44) super into this way.
(247:47) I went to the RNC and I got pulled over
(247:49) by multiple people at the RNC being
(247:52) like, "Man, we never get cool people in
(247:54) the conservative spaces." And I was
(247:55) like, "Yeah, [ __ ] I'm not I'm not with
(247:57) you." Right? Because I have studs in my
(247:59) nose and I dress alty. Right? So, yes, a
(248:02) lot of people think Alt is cool. That's
(248:05) one way that you can peacock and pretend
(248:06) that you're cool. Another way that
(248:08) people think that you're cool is that
(248:09) you're charismatic and attractive and
(248:10) girls want to [ __ ] you, right? There's
(248:11) like tons of ways that somebody could be
(248:13) cool. But yeah, DFW, for example, Dallas
(248:15) has a massive punk scene. like it's like
(248:17) a probably one of the bigger ones in in
(248:19) Texas
(248:22) >> as somebody moving to Texas.
(248:24) >> I think we're just gonna have to agree
(248:26) to disagree.
(248:27) >> Yeah, we we've circled the drain on
(248:29) this. I do have things I got to do in my
(248:31) life. So, what we're going to do now is
(248:34) we are going to tell you guys if you've
(248:36) enjoyed this content for whatever
(248:38) reason, hit that like button, hit that
(248:40) subscribe button. Uh give me your money.
(248:43) Uh your money is safe in my hands,
(248:45) right? you're just going to spend it on
(248:46) video games and stuff, why not give it
(248:48) to me instead, who will use it to also
(248:51) probably spend it on video games and
(248:52) stuff. Anyway, uh we got some great
(248:55) stuff coming up next week. I'm going to
(248:56) be interviewing uh the Reverend Vaughn
(249:00) on Tuesday, who again is a pastor of the
(249:04) same church that Martin Luther King Jr.
(249:06) was a pastor of back in the 30s and uh
(249:08) in the 40s and the 50s and all that. So,
(249:10) you should check that out and that's
(249:12) going to be great. We're going to
(249:14) talking about my Georgia, my vote, and
(249:15) how we're work working with the local
(249:17) leaders in Georgia to ensure election
(249:19) integrity, right? And make sure that uh
(249:22) Trump doesn't do anything weird with the
(249:23) vote. Okay, so uh tune in then. It's
(249:26) going to be great. Um I have links to
(249:29) all these lovely people in the YouTube
(249:31) description. You should check them out.
(249:33) And we're just gonna read out into uh to
(249:34) David right now. And uh so say hi, spam
(249:38) the emotes. And uh I guess uh that's it.
(249:42) Wave. Bye-bye everyone. Bye-bye.
(249:44) >> Yes. Goodbye everybody.
(249:46) >> I love you. Be careful.
(249:47) >> Bye.
(249:56) >> Sorry.
(249:58) I don't know why I'm tearing up so much.
(250:03) Oh, it's so frustrating. [ __ ] That's
(250:05) why liberals are so [ __ ] frustrating.
(250:10) God.
(250:31) There we go.
(250:35) Okay.
(250:39) You guys are on my I I don't need to
(250:41) explain myself to you. I'm just tearing
(250:43) up because I There's a reason I don't
(250:45) stream. It's because I have like trauma
(250:46) around streaming and it's like it's this
(250:48) [ __ ] It's just Oh, [ __ ] I just hate
(250:51) this [ __ ]
(250:53) Okay,
(250:55) I'm going to ra you